Outposts

[bf649ztp]

We all know the kami can match the karavan at any OP battle and win....We all know the large majority of kara turn up to OP battles when alot of kami don't. Is this because generally the karavan are fat lazy people with absolutely nothing better to do with their lives than partake in online wars..I don't think so. Rather more likely is, alot of the kami have given up as of a long time ago. Too many of them only partake in defense or have even given up on doing that. The reason for this....I don't know. It's a shame, but nothing can be taken away from the karavan, when all they have done is shown their dedication to the OP battles.
The Karavan have won, I don't see any reason to take this win away from them with talk of unbalanced sides, unfair this that and the other. The simple fact is, they wanted it more, and now they have got it. Well done guys.

Kodel.

[final60]

An example of an OP war with the limiting participants mechanic in place:

A guild attacks declares war on an outpost! They gauge possible support for the attack phase. Realise that perhaps only 35-40 of their comrades may be able to turn out to help them! So they set the Attack time! And then the participant number to 40v40.

The next day the attack goes ahead. They manage to break the threshold and raise it to 9! There were many wipes, and different tactics used, all in all a great fight as usual!

The Defenders set their defence time and participant number to no limit! The attackers aren’t so worried about the number limit! The casual pvper’s that didn’t need to show up the previous day are fresh and in the mood for a fight! They don’t feel like they were forced to come, because “it’s their duty”, even though they’d rather be doing something else, they haven’t fought in a while and are looking forward to it!

The fight goes ahead. The war is more of a frontal head on approach due to the numbers! Thanks to those casual players that wanted to come and fight, there are just enough numbers to make the fight even enough for both sides to wipe every 2 to 3 rounds! The defenders manage to keep their OP with a threshold of 11! But it was close with only 2 rounds in it!

Ideas for the limiting options!

Attackers only choose the attack phase participant limit!
Defenders only choosing the Defence phase participant limit!

The limit:

20 v 20 - 2 guards per spawn

40 v 40 - 4

60 v 60 - 6

80 v 80 - 8

No limit - 10 guards per spawn

Attackers can Banish people from being part of their force via the list of participants in the Outpost Tab of the guild information window(shift + J on old UI) to prevent defenders choosing to attack but not participating!

The same would apply to the defenders for their phase of the war!

For those not familiar with the way guards work!
Ill have to check this as i cant remember off the top of me head, but its approximately 8-9 guards per pop. 1 pop added with every round increase! So round 1 = 1 pop of we'll say 8 for now guards
round 5 = 5 pop of guards = 40 guards
round 10 = 10 pops = 80 guards
round 18 = 144 guards
round 24 = 192 guards (near impossible on a ql250 op, unless one side overwhelms the other, which has happened only once EVER, just recently!)

[danolt]

Do you have any grasp of what a guild leader would have to deal with under that scenario. "No not you, we are going to give your slot to nonactive250man." What happens if one of the 20 pulls a no show? You don't think there will be any hard feelings, I do.

You are asking that leaders to put the OP's above their players. Might I suggest this may be why the Kami are losing, ideas like this that place victory as being more important then the soldiers, perhaps it is this sort of 'idealism' that has caused the Kami army to dwindle.

Build up your people, include them, they will contribute. Do what is best for your side, and even if you lose you will benefit.

Besides we all know, the only mechanic that will save the kami is if the devs remove the invun rush.

[final60]

No not at all , the option of banishing would hardly ever be needed. Ryzoms community is too good for that! But there will always be the times when the odd person clicks attack instead of defend!

Outposts have been in this situation a year now, plenty of time for me to "build up my people". We are beyond that!

[vguerin]

The Karavan have won, I don't see any reason to take this win away from them with talk of unbalanced sides, unfair this that and the other. The simple fact is, they wanted it more, and now they have got it. Well done guys.

[OOC] We wanted a faction war, we got a political war in the forums and something else IG. Nobody won, the Karavaneers that stayed together have been more steadfast and our gains have progressed but we have not won for "Jena" because that part of the game hasn't progressed. The team with the more common goals are currently holding favor in the balance of things, but most of us really wanted it to mean something.

We lost many good homins on all sides due to mechanics that didn't allow certain things... Where is our game today, not where anyone had hoped.

Can Kye's often repeated thread topic change that ? Not likely since the OP didn't have anything to add to this old debate.

Ryzom needs the "Saga" part back, somehow GF needs to figure out how to do that while... Making sure the factions, PVPers, PVEers, new players and everyone else can have a great game experience.

No easy task...[/OOC]

[naratuul]

[OOC] We wanted a faction war, we got a political war in the forums and something else IG. Nobody won, the Karavaneers that stayed together have been more steadfast and our gains have progressed but we have not won for "Jena" because that part of the game hasn't progressed. The team with the more common goals are currently holding favor in the balance of things, but most of us really wanted it to mean something.

We lost many good homins on all sides due to mechanics that didn't allow certain things... Where is our game today, not where anyone had hoped.

Can Kye's often repeated thread topic change that ? Not likely since the OP didn't have anything to add to this old debate.

Ryzom needs the "Saga" part back, somehow GF needs to figure out how to do that while... Making sure the factions, PVPers, PVEers, new players and everyone else can have a great game experience.

No easy task...[/OOC]

Well said! i think there is a thread stating that the new CSR team is working on getting events up again. I'll look up the thread and link it if i can find it.


Found it

[riveit]

Example it is:
About 8 months ago Rocci came to several tryker guild leaders and asked them to attack Atys Ghosts (tryker guild) because "they are not active anymore" (in the opinion of the KA guild Rocci was HO at the time). He added that his guild will take the OP if we don't do it.

What the KA might have not known is we, the tryker guilds at that time, compared notes and realised he has told us all the same thing.
Side note: Atys Ghosts were not inactive, but like all guilds in Ryzom, had a time with less members.

As only the Aeden Artisans accepted KA's "generous" offer, and as Atys Ghosts didn't want at that time trykers to fight trykers, they gave their OP to AA on their own. The tryker alliance put at that time the formal condition that no matis be at that war.

There are other examples as well but this is one I personally was involved in, a strong evidence about the KA control politics and a main reson why I voted for kami when TS decided their faction.

Actually the true story is rather different, as you know since I have written you on this subject before. Your history is incorrect because you have little or no knowledge of what goes on or went on within the KA. Rocci's guild was not considered within the KA. Splinter guilds do not gain immediate acceptance. Yes, Rocci and his guild of 2 or 3 wished to attack Windyway and take it from the largely inactive Atys Ghosts. Pero attacked Windyway to prevent him from doing so. Pero did this on his own initiative. Even his guildmembers were taken by surprise. He did it because of the frustration of having a guild of ~25 members begging and buying and digging for cats from much smaller guilds for 3 months. He didn't want to see a guild of two take it while AA was passed over once again. Nor did we feel that a guild who had largely left the game and set the drill to mats needed to keep it. The KA did not offer this outpost to anyone. The KA was almost unanimously opposed to the attack. Spiff, in particular, denounced it harshly. Only the Pegasus Foundation was very supportive of AA's attack because they were still angry with AG. The Pegasus Foundation was the original owner of the outpost. Atys Ghosts had taken it by attacking it during Christmas dinner in the US. Pegasus had been planning to give it to AA when Atys ghosts attacked. However, since no one wanted to defend during Christmas dinner and it was Pegasus' second outpost, we advised Pegasus to just give it graciously to AG. AA went on to set its sights on Whirling Stronghold, which we declared upon and then cancelled due to the outcry on the forums. I apologize to AG for bringing up this bit of history, none of the present members bears any onus for what long gone guildleaders did years ago. I do so only to set the record straight from our point of view.

Faa, I don't know why you feel the need to repeatedly criticize my guild on the forum. You attacked our outpost twice within a week and we only said "Thank you".

Much love,

Riv

[raven41]

-- Just a note (off topic) --

I'v seen a few people say "Noboby PvPs for fun" and just want to let you know, Thats completely false, I can say this because I know for a fact that 'I' PvP just for the fun... I don't get anything from OPs,( I have one set of amps thats the only OP wep I have ever owned, And Iv used maybe 7-8 stacks of cats ever...4 of those being QL 100 cats just to help get my jewel craft lvld off so I could craft 100QL) Tho Iv handled quite a few stacks of 250s, Just gave them to people who wanted them more.

I have no use for cats really, If someone gives em to me, I'll probably go ahead and use them, But if they disapeared from Atys, I wouldn't notice (Other then people crying about it ofcourse)... So maybe not 'many' people PvP just for fun, but don't say "no one" because it just isn't true.

[norvic]

[OOC] We wanted a faction war, we got a political war in the forums and something else IG. Nobody won, the Karavaneers that stayed together have been more steadfast and our gains have progressed but we have not won for "Jena" because that part of the game hasn't progressed. The team with the more common goals are currently holding favor in the balance of things, but most of us really wanted it to mean something.

We lost many good homins on all sides due to mechanics that didn't allow certain things... Where is our game today, not where anyone had hoped.

Can Kye's often repeated thread topic change that ? Not likely since the OP didn't have anything to add to this old debate.

Ryzom needs the "Saga" part back, somehow GF needs to figure out how to do that while... Making sure the factions, PVPers, PVEers, new players and everyone else can have a great game experience.

No easy task...[/OOC]

Dont often agree with DT but this post I reckon is a pretty accurate assesment OOC he is obviuosly nearly sane unlike Jayce.

Have a few niggles with the first paragraph as I regard it more as PvP powergamers gaining control through successful manipulation of propaganda to gain numbers and use of game existing game mechanics to the disadvantage of anyone else, not having anything to do with Jena at all (which even DT hints at a little, as he seems to agree the saga has died), but that is just the same old semantics so I wont say any more.

On the balancing side I have mentioned the insta ressing before, I dont want healing messed with again either but insta ressing is a joke in a PvP battle and some sort of timer for those Tagged for the OP battle would go a little way to helping put some skill back into things rather than the current Zerg tactics.

Edit: Said this before aswell but still think the cats should be dropped from the game altogether and alternative OP rewards put in to give a level playing field even for those who choose not to PvP or Trade. Not saying all content should be available to all even if you cant be bothered trying but lvling at double speed for some and not others is a big cause of imbalance

OT: Thanks to Faa for the clarification on the Atys Ghost OP, I didnt reply to the idiot who made a recent slur on Evolution re this matter but clarification was needed and is appreciated from a third party rather than two homins who dont get on banging heads in public again.

[blaah]

On the balancing side I have mentioned the insta ressing before, I dont want healing messed with again either but insta ressing is a joke in a PvP battle and some sort of timer for those Tagged for the OP battle would go a little way to helping put some skill back into things rather than the current Zerg tactics.

wasn't there a rez skill at beta ? anyway, i want that back max 5 lvl's, higher lvl rezes lvl 250 player in 3 or 5 sec, but only to say 100 HP. lower lvl one takes 20 sec maybe, and get it up to 1 hp maybe and make it available from all trainers.

i think it would be great for pve too