I just joined as a subscriber

[sehracii]

Portios, what's your IG name?

And/or you should enable private messages here on the forum

[portios]

Portios, what's your IG name?

And/or you should enable private messages here on the forum

I was unaware I needed to enable that as all the previous forums I used had it enabled by default.

[huntar]

((OOC mode now))

Where does the lore talk about this bit? I can't say I've ever read it, though I confess that I could have missed it. If it's in the writings of either the Kami or tha Karavan, it is obviously suspect (IC). If it's something Nevrax/GF have written, then it can be taken at face value.
.......

I think it was one of the Jessica Mulligan interviews, which means that it is information no character would have access to, but my character has reasons of her own to dislike the Kami, and other reasons to be neutral rather than following the Karavan .

As for the direction this thread has taken, the first four or so pages were on topic and helpful for the OP, now we can relax and discuss philosophy and religion as an extension of those earlier posts. Kami vs Karavan debate threads are more fun than KA vs KA vs anyone else fight/flame threads, the only problem is the title of the thread doesnt really indicate its contents

[hazira]

I think it was one of the Jessica Mulligan interviews

Bleh I put as much faith in Mulligan interviews as I would a giant jelly donut... If that makes any sense.

EDIT: Don't mean to offend any Jessica fans if there are some, just my personal view of this person, their work and certain essays I've glimpsed.. O.o

[mithur]

Kami vs Karavan debate threads are more fun than KA vs KA vs anyone else fight/flame threads, the only problem is the title of the thread doesnt really indicate its contents

I have to say that the discussions in regional channel Kara vs Kami while PvPing about Jena and Ma-Duck are very fun

[xfluffee]

You say the Karavan are outsiders. so are homin, they belong in Atys just as much as Karavan do.

While I have agreed that the Kami lore does leave open the possibility of homins immigrating to Atys, and the Kara lore comes right out and says that (IIRC), I postulated that homins have integrated themselves into the ecosystem of Atys, whereas the Karavan keep themselves isolated from it.

That is an important distinction, and one that changes homin "evolution?" significantly: the sap of Atys flows through their bodies, unlike with the Karavan. That sap is what is drawn upon when manipulating the magicks. It is undetermined whether, NOW, homin life could exist somewhere besides Atys, given the changes that have taken place in their lifecycle. Would they just lose access to the manipulation of that mystical energy of which Atys is the center? Or would they cease to exist altogether, like a plant ripped out of the ground and placed in a cup or dish?

For that integration reason alone, I say that the Karavan are different enough from homins. If they were no different from the homins, why not isolate the homins from the "effects" of Atys as well? Why not raise them more closely in the Karavan ways, as heirs to the technology that appears to render them god-like?

In my opinion thats what any other homin race would be like if they got their hands on the blueprints for them shiny toys the Karavan have.

Yeah, definitely. To primitive civilizations, we would appear to be gods: communicate over long distances instantly, conjure fire by snapping our fingers (while holding a lighter), or one of any number of other advancements we take for granted today. The Matis approach to the Karavan seems the correct one, it's just too bad the lore doesn't match up with how closely the Matis are associated with the Karavan in the game mechanics.

I dont think either really gives a crap what hapens to homins. we are just cheap labor to them.

For the Karavan, I'd agree 100%. For the Kami, I'd say they don't care about the labor aspect so much, but more like: homins are another life on Atys to be protected, watched over, and -- because they are more capable than any other life form -- disciplined. In a sense, I'd say they care -less- about homins specifically than the Karavan, meaning they don't even consider them worthy of attention except when they work to undermine the balance of the ecosystem or empower the Karavan. One exception that springs to mind concerns the goo: homins are more expendable than Kami when it comes to finding the solution to that problem

everything about their faction is Great/good/acceptable, everything about the other faction is Horrible/bad/unacceptable.

The way the lore is set up so far, it doesn't seem likely enough that homins can integrate into Karavan society if they were removed from Atys as promised by Jena. The lore also doesn't seem to offer any sort of concrete hope for flinging yourself full-force into the will and worship of the Kami, either. However, the promises of the Karavan seem to have some sort of specificity to them, while the promises of the Kami seem to just be more of the same as what exists now.

Finally I think it would be sweet if homins got a hold of Karavan technology and used it to kick both Kara and Kami out of Atys.

This could work for the Karavan, but operating under the idea that the Kami are closely tied to the planet, you would have to destroy the planet to destroy the Kami.

Now I got to go to the Arispotle guild forums to find me a good Karavan guild with players in the Americas time zone.

Well, what eventually led me to my guild was friendship. It sounds like you've had a wonderful experience so far, and please allow me to join in welcoming you to Atys

And like many others have posted, you don't have to rush to join a guild. Many similarly-leveled people will be more than willing to team up with you for a variety of fun and frolic while you decide what's best for you.

[danolt]

If everything on the planet is alive, and the roots are not cannibalizing the planet what are they feeding on?

How many layers can the roots create before the foundations that support them are eaten, rot away or simply collapse?

The Trykers have Cutes, the Zoari have gibbi, the Karavan have ...?

What are the Kitin?

Pero

[kaetemi]

If everything on the planet is alive, and the roots are not cannibalizing the planet what are they feeding on?

The energy, the Life Giver.

The Trykers have Cutes, the Zoari have gibbi, the Karavan have ...?

Nothing on Atys.

What are the Kitin?

Insects.

[rushin]

The Trykers have Cutes, the Zoari have gibbi, the Karavan have ...?

the karavan don't need a devolved ancestor species don't lose heart though, the only way is up right?

[xfluffee]

If everything on the planet is alive, and the roots are not cannibalizing the planet what are they feeding on?

Everything on the planet is organic in origin (from my original post in this thread). That includes dead stuff. Which is, in turn, used as nutrients for plants and animals. Which grow, and then die, and then become fertilizer, which provides nutrients for plants and animals. Etc.

And the amazing thing about roots ... they grow down, in the direction of the force of gravity, using up any space that might be available. As something down there dies and rots, and becomes nutrients, more roots grow to fill in the vacated space.

It's all pretty basic science, just applied to a game.