How to balance forage.

[rugster]

[QUOTE=lazarus]
I must confess I don't see how this change would 'balance' foraging. Balance it against what exactly? Seems to me there are far too many threads these days along the lines of "they've broken my toy so I want everyone else's toys broken too".QUOTE]

Not to balance the skill. But to balance to exploitation that exsists, to use forage to remove melee debt. ATM they will balance the game, and the will mess it up for foragers. BECAUSE people are being foragers to use this exploit. A built in exploit, but exploit all the same.

One you openly admit to using. I therefore expect you to disagree.

Exploits allow you to do something easier then it would otherwise be done or was designed to be done.

Foraging xp allows you to remove melee dp faster then you would be able to remove it through melee xp.

Why?

Simple, if they continue to "balance" forage xp they way they are, for example remove (change) Material Specialization, which raises XP, they are going to wreck the foraging system. Better for them to stop melee players exploiting it then to have them destroy it altogether.

I find melee in ryzoms very boring. I enjoy foraging. I enjoy crafting. I dont want the idiots devs to destroy a enjoyable gaming system to stop others exploiting it. If you die because you didnt have the brains not to attack something that would obviously kill you 3 times in a row. Then you shouldnt be able to use the forage xp exploit to regain your dp, it is supposed to be a punishment for death. You should be forced to use melee xp to regain melee dp.

If anyone disagrees, i am sure we can agree, that you want to keep the status quo so you can continue to exploit it.

[shrike]

The difference is, that this would force a harvester to be melee. A melee is already being forrced to be a harvester to clear dp rapidly. The harvester isnt being forced to be a melee, he doesnt need to kill yubos.

Which would you prefer? 2 hours melee for no xp and probably no mats. Or 15 mins of no xp and two dozen mats which you can sell.

Your "logic" (or, better: the strange, twisted thing you apparently confuse with it) astonishes me.

----

About the exp multiplier: The reason for it is that you cannot use another, lower skill of the same tree to get rid of your exp penality very fast. For example, when I used prime root foraging (lvl 172) to get 3k exp (not possible now anymore, of cource) I removed 51k death penality. When I use forest forageing (lvl 65) to get 3k exp (which is still possible) I only remove 18k death penality.
Similar, an advanced melee fighter in a group could use ranged, or a offensive mage healing for quick 3k to remove the DP fast.

[ixils]

This should be removed from the game. It can be exploited.

Wonders what the heck he is smoking...

Oh ya... I will pk by random explosion...

ROFL

Perhaps I am missing something here... but come on people. We forage in my guild in groups. And we have learned the hard way to not stick too close together.

I see so many posts on this board about how to make the world... less... and... less. Less dangerous... less unpredictable... Look if you follow this path it will no longer be INTERESTING.. CHALLENGING... and ultimately you will be here complaining about how DURNED BORING everything is.

Pleeeeeezee... be careful what you ask for.

Or... I hope Nevrax never comes here.

[desolis]

I see so many posts on this board about how to make the world... less... and... less. Less dangerous... less unpredictable... Look if you follow this path it will no longer be INTERESTING.. CHALLENGING... and ultimately you will be here complaining about how DURNED BORING everything is.

Lol g1

There is always gonna be people that want to open ther ebox install there game and be lvl 250 It is like all those people comlplaining how hard it is to get to areas well Ill craft u all a helicopter and fly u there for a small fee, Gawd do people not want a challenge anymore? after a week of trying to get to matis i finally made it with one of me guildies, my palms where sweating my heart was beating fast and when I saw tatoo and a group at the edges of Yrkanis I knew we had made it and i punched the air then transmitted on my Guild channel of our acheivement I wa sso chuffed so i walk into fyros and one of the first thing some one said to me is 'Oh ive never saw i fyros homin b4' . (oh and i just had to share that with everyone. My Next Challenge/step is now to take the rest of me guild and any other fyros to matis)

Anyways Getting rid of DP (warning read on at your own risk of a laffin fit at my expense)

im having a wee stroll pyr past the raw mats merchant and say to me self uck ill go grab a couple of levels in melee weapon craft. I spend 100k or 2 or 3 and after ive done round 10 2hs im getting worried, me mats are running out and i not got a level yet ???? so ill look at my A window and think was that not same spot as last time? then low and behold i look at my sys window and im enlightened - You have gained 1500 in Melee wep exp and your death penalty is now 0 after 8093 has been subtracted

My Dp is now cleared rofl im a tube sometimes

[lazarus]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a really hard time getting my head around this - why is being able to use any skill to remove DP an exploit? I thought that being able to 'multi-skill' for want of a better term was one of this game's big points, the fact that I can level what I want when I want.

I think some people are still stuck in the idea of classes. I hear people talking about fighters and foragers etc, but we can't be pigeonholed like that - we're homins. We can be whatever we want to be. It's one of the main things that attracted me to this game, the fact that I can do some fighting, some foraging, a bit of magic and crafting all the same spot and virtually at the same time if I like. Even if I decide (as I have) to focus on foraging, that doesn't stop me from doing other things if I want to. It's entirely up to me, and that is one of the best things about this game. If I'm foraging and some people come by and say "hey, let's go hunting" I can equip my sword and go hunting and when I'm done I can equip my pick and go back to foraging.

If I die through melee, I can use any skill to remove DP. If I die while foraging I can use any skill to remove DP. What difference does it make? It's not an exploit, it's part of the unique skill system of this game.

I really don't understand why people are always so bothered about what other people are doing. What difference does it make to anyone else how I remove DP? What difference does it make to anyone else what level I am in melee or forage or whatever? For example, I have only 16 levels in magic. I have friends who are near level 100 in magic. Does that bother me? Heck no, I say well done to them. Do I wish I was as high as them? Sometimes yes, but I certainly wouldn't want to hinder their progress in any way simply because they're higher than me.

The fact that you can use any skill to remove DP is not an exploit. An exploit is using a bug or other 'broken' feature to gain an unfair advantage over another player. As far as I can tell, the removal of DP is working as intended, so how can it be an exploit?

I don't understand this obsession some people have with what other people are doing. I play my game, and I let others play theirs. Some people level faster than me, some slower. What difference does it make? None.

[rugster]

[QUOTE=lazarus]I'm sorry, but I'm having a really hard time getting my head around this - why is being able to use any skill to remove DP an exploit?
QUOTE]

I would have thought that was obvious.

[shrike]

I would have thought that was obvious.

But only to you.

Besides, it is not possible to categorize how you died exept when foraging and getting explosions/acid.

What when a melee mob kills you? Does this mean you have to remove the DP by using melee, since that was the skill the mob used? What if you use a mixture of magic & melee to kill mobs and get killed while doing this - where to put the DP? What if you have very low health due to a explosion, get atatcked by a mob, try to defend yourself with melee and get killed? And so on...

Sorry, but that idea is a brainfart.

[borg9]

This whole thread is very interesting........ but

Has anyone noticed the following:

Magic/Melee - you can kill a more powerful mob and get 3k capped XP
Craft - XP on craft is un capped 4k xp is possible while crafting.

Forage - when mat spec allowed 50% extra ql ment you could actually get 3k XP

Now to level your main branch of Forage - you get ever decreasing XP till you qualify for the ql Stanza

However on the plus side you will always get 3k XP in the other branches.

My conclusion is that forage has now be 'controlled' by the game. All other skills can be controlled by the player...

Fight/magic user - selects a target
Crafter - selects the materials

Harvest is limited by the skill available at that level!

I would guess that the new ql20, ql80, ql90 etc may redress this issue, but some how I doubt it!

Not crying cas the took away my toy, just disappointed that control has been taken away from my harvester.

[lazarus]

I would have thought that was obvious.

Have to agree with Shrike here - it does seem to be only obvious to you.

I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from, but I just don't see what you're getting at. I don't see why you consider this to be such a major problem, or indeed why you call it an exploit.

For example, in our guild we have several people who do nothing but fight - no forage, no magic, no craft. If they get DP they keep fighting until it's gone. They're certainly not 'forced' to forage to remove DP, they just use fight to get rid of it. They have no interest in foraging, to remove DP or for any other reason, so to say that fighters are forced to forage is IMO complete nonsense.

Example #2 - I was just in a group doing a little melee, and we all got toasted. After we respawned, some guys decided to make a run to Fyros, a couple had to log off, and I decided to forage a bit to test some gentle actions in preparation for the forthcoming changes to the harvest system. In your idea, I would have had to go and fight more to remove my DP first, or gain nothing from my harvesting. I didn't forage to remove DP, I foraged because that's what I chose to do after the group broke up. Does that make me an exploiter? I hardly think so. I merely chose to do something different after grouping with some friends, so why should I be punished for that?

I'm sorry to say this, but this is really beginning to sound more and more like a case of sour grapes to me, rather than an effort to draw attention to a serious issue.

[paradoc]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a really hard time getting my head around this - why is being able to use any skill to remove DP an exploit? I thought that being able to 'multi-skill' for want of a better term was one of this game's big points, the fact that I can level what I want when I want.

I think some people are still stuck in the idea of classes. I hear people talking about fighters and foragers etc, but we can't be pigeonholed like that - we're homins. We can be whatever we want to be. It's one of the main things that attracted me to this game, the fact that I can do some fighting, some foraging, a bit of magic and crafting all the same spot and virtually at the same time if I like. Even if I decide (as I have) to focus on foraging, that doesn't stop me from doing other things if I want to. It's entirely up to me, and that is one of the best things about this game. If I'm foraging and some people come by and say "hey, let's go hunting" I can equip my sword and go hunting and when I'm done I can equip my pick and go back to foraging.

If I die through melee, I can use any skill to remove DP. If I die while foraging I can use any skill to remove DP. What difference does it make? It's not an exploit, it's part of the unique skill system of this game.

I really don't understand why people are always so bothered about what other people are doing. What difference does it make to anyone else how I remove DP? What difference does it make to anyone else what level I am in melee or forage or whatever? For example, I have only 16 levels in magic. I have friends who are near level 100 in magic. Does that bother me? Heck no, I say well done to them. Do I wish I was as high as them? Sometimes yes, but I certainly wouldn't want to hinder their progress in any way simply because they're higher than me.

The fact that you can use any skill to remove DP is not an exploit. An exploit is using a bug or other 'broken' feature to gain an unfair advantage over another player. As far as I can tell, the removal of DP is working as intended, so how can it be an exploit?

I don't understand this obsession some people have with what other people are doing. I play my game, and I let others play theirs. Some people level faster than me, some slower. What difference does it make? None.

yup...gotta agree with everything you said there.