Speed vs Rate ?

[seawe]

I'm currently a focused forager and wonder what the differense between say aggressive speed and agressive rate is? Does rate relate to quality and speed quantity or is it the other way around.


This is confusing me, especially when it comes to missions.

[lorgerol]

I'm currently a focused forager and wonder what the differense between say aggressive speed and agressive rate is? Does rate relate to quality and speed quantity or is it the other way around.


This is confusing me, especially when it comes to missions.

Neither speed nor rate are related to quality works, that's a third thing. Here is how it all works:

When you are extracting, you can see the bar in the top left (below Hp etc.) fill up, as your character performs the extracting action. The bar filling up once is one "cycle". At the end of each cycle, two things happen:
- the amount of materials you have extracted jumps a bit (e.g. from 0.3 to 0.5)
- the quality of the material you have extracted rises (e.g. from 13 to 21)

The three things you can change in an extraction action are the speed, the rate and the quality.
- Speed determines the time it takes to complete one cycle, i.e. how long it takes for the bar to fill up.
- Rate determines how much the amount of materials increases by, at the end of each cycle.
- Quality determines what the maximum of the quality is, once it reaches this value it rises no further.

Some stats on the speed/rate 1 and speed/rate 2:
- Speed 1 : each cycle is about 4 seconds
- Speed 2 : each cycle is about 3.666 seconds
- Rate 1 : each cycle gives you 0.2 materials
- Rate 2 : each cycle gives you 0.25 materials

How fast the quality rises has nothing to do with speed or rate. How many cycles you need to reach the maximum quality depends on the max. quality only.

Maximum quality:
- at Q10 you need 5 or 6 cycles to reach max
- at Q25 you need 6 cycles to reach max
- at Q50 you need 7 cycles to reach max

Source time stanzas: the basic prospection action, without any source time stanzas, generates a source with source time 25 seconds. The various source time stanzas generate sources that last as long as the name of the stanza implies (30s, 35s, 45s etc.)

Example:
At lvl 1, basic prospection gives you a source that lasts 25s. With speed 1, this allows for 25/4=6.25 cycles, i.e. 6 complete cycles. Using rate 1, you need 1/0.2=5 cycles to obtain one complete material. During these 5 cycles, the quality will hopefully rise to Q10, but if it doesn't, you have one extra cycle to spare before the source runs out.

Example 2:
At lvl 20, you can get source time 35s. This allows you 35/4=8.25 cycles, even using speed 1. Provided that you use rate 2, this means 8*0.25=2 whole materials, just about. Even if you are using Q25, you can extract 2xQ25, as 8 cycles are enough to reach maximum quality.
However, this doesn't give you any spare cycles, should you spoil the quality of your material.

[seawe]

Ok that clears up the difference b/t rate and speed. Thanks alot for the help Lorgerol.

And so gentle rate vs aggressive rate must affect the quality or areas stability? or maybe both.?

[lyrah68]

Ok that clears up the difference b/t rate and speed. Thanks alot for the help Lorgerol.

And so gentle rate vs aggressive rate must affect the quality or areas stability? or maybe both.?

Gentle Quality has to do with how much you disturbe the area while you are gathering. Gentle Quality with Aggressive other wise is a NICE combo, it lowers depleted nodes and number of gassings and explosions to a survivable number (what does it matter what you get if you are dead when it is time to press take).

[seawe]

Gentle Quality has to do with how much you disturbe the area while you are gathering. Gentle Quality with Aggressive other wise is a NICE combo, it lowers depleted nodes and number of gassings and explosions to a survivable number (what does it matter what you get if you are dead when it is time to press take).

Yes this makes sense, I have learned this often now

[nihir]

What happens when you have a Gentle stanza in an extraction action? Does it slow down the rate/speed along with the slowing down Life/Danger bar depletion?

[seawe]

Yes , this is still a bit of a mystery, does gentle rate (which takes more focus) give better quality than aggressive rate?

[borg9]

Yes , this is still a bit of a mystery, does gentle rate (which takes more focus) give better quality than aggressive rate?

Gentle rate/speed/quality all take more focus when compared with aggressive.

However there end results are the same, gentle speed 1 = aggressive speed 1 in that they both perform the action in the same time.

Aggressive = high risk + low focus = harmful to the source and surrounding area.
Gentle = low risk + high focus = more caring to the source and surrounding area.

Finding a good mix can reduce source depletion and chance of explosions, you have to pay for this will more effort in the form of focus.

[seawe]

"However there end results are the same, gentle speed 1 = aggressive speed 1 in that they both perform the action in the same time."

This is what i really wanted to figure out, I've been thinking that Gentle = more time which meant less mats. But if you're right that its just about the amount of focus needed then if one really needed a very High Quality Gentle would be best in all stanzas when extracting.

[lyrah68]

Yes , this is still a bit of a mystery, does gentle rate (which takes more focus) give better quality than aggressive rate?

Gentle quality seems to keep the star and heart bars from tanking as fast. I recently got harmful 100, can't get gentle for a few more levels UGH but Q100 is a hundred times faster xp wise, so I suck it up and DEAL with what I feel is an inferior way of getting things done.

I have noticed that Gentle tends to raise the Q a tad slower, BUT it tends to allow you more time to gather both MORE units, and higher Q, up to the MAX of that node. It honestly does NOT matter what is in the node, if you tank the heart and exhaust the area, or tank the star and die in the explosion.

Harmful all the way is like strip mining. Gentle is like walking into the forest and gathering all the fallen dead wood, some of that dead wood MIGHT be some small things home. Harmful is coming in with 50 chain saws and leaving not a TREE standing. Needless to say, in a world that is perfectly capable of defending itself, BOOM is more likely with the chainsaw and strip mining than the picking up the dead wood.

I THINK the number of units you get total is a tad less with Gentle, but then you are less likely to bork up the forage site, so you are MORE likely to get MORE material over time than with Harmful all the way.

OH and on Q's over 100 if you see node mode five SIT NOW, do NOT try it. Those will hit you will an explosion over 800 points. OUCH does NOT cover it.

Mode 0 will hit you with a boomer, but it is itty bitty by comparision to a mode four or five.