Crafting/Harvesting Crisis

[zzeii]

Understandably 9k mats to raise a skill 30 levels may seem like a daunting task for a forager.

But thats saying you STRICTLY use foraged mats to grind your level.

So what's the point of quartered mats?

Yes, not all of them drop frequently, but, aside from light armor/jewelry/mace type things. over half to two-thirds of every peice of gear can be made from mats that drop from carnivores/kitin, which as we all know, have rediculously high drop rates (at least when compared to herbivores). And a good hunting party can kill them at a very fast rate, getting well more than 5 mats a minute for these crafts. 30-45 minutes in Dew Drops and I can fill up on over 400 mats. Admittedly, these are of lower quality than what would be used to grind at higher level crafting, but as the fighters/mages level, they can hunt in better places to get better Q mats.

Sometimes, you have to let the hate for cutes die, and go kill some zerx, kipestra, and kipees to make a few pikes .

Now instead of having to forage 9k mats to raise pike from 120-150, you only have to forage the grips, cutting that number down to 2700. At 5 mats a minute, thats 8.5 hours, cut it between 2 harvesters, now its 4 hours and 15 minutes a peice. Hrmm...sounds like a logical plan of action. It's what guilds and friends are for =)

[shrike]

Mainly 'cause there are so many liars out there, it's hard to know who to believe. You don't help your position by attacking people who, reasonably or not, question you. As we all know, the dishonest person will distract and attack rather than answer a question they don't know the answer to, or have an explanation for, not to imply that's the case here.

Not really.

Firstly, only a stupid dishonest person would simply attack someone. If you lie about something you can easily fabricate an explanation lie as well.

Secondly, apart that lying about things which can be easily tested by other players of the same lvl doesn't makes any sense, it is a FAR more sensible viewpoint to use something called "turst" and believe a person until proven otherwise.

[eschiava]

I "turst" you Shrike.

[fiadd]

Now instead of having to forage 9k mats to raise pike from 120-150, you only have to forage the grips, cutting that number down to 2700. At 5 mats a minute, thats 8.5 hours, cut it between 2 harvesters, now its 4 hours and 15 minutes a peice. Hrmm...sounds like a logical plan of action. It's what guilds and friends are for =)

That works for pikes, now try to the same equation with magic amplifiers (once we're able to get a skill above 100 on them). Two of your three materials cannot be quartered from carnivores/kitens, so you're left either foraging for the majority of your mats or getting people to kill mass amounts of herbivores (as it seems to take roughly 4-5 herbivores to be killed to get 1 eye off them).

Now move from weapons to armor, where you need crafters who make all 3 types, and all 5/6 pieces per type, and they're all seperate skills which have to be leveled up. Medium and heavy crafters are lucky enough to only need to get lining from harvesting, light crafters have to get lining and cloth (the majority of the mats to make the items).

edit: forgot to add the jewelry makers - where none of the items used drop off kiten/carnivores, so they must level up entirely on foraged or herbivore drop items.

[jdiegel]

This seems more like a short term issue than a long one.

[ctusk]

Yeah it is a short term issue, for the next 6 months your fighters will fight with weapons below their levels - after that the crafters will have eventually caught up. The only ones screwed are new crafters or those without a guild - as usual.

Of course all of that is pointless because by that time noone will be playing the game anymore since there is close to zero content for high level players and it doesn't look like Nevrax will be able to fix that in time before people quit.

The real issue here is the imbalance - Foragers already hit lvl 250, fighters are in their 150s, the crafters are the only ones lagging behind.

Sure, now they are fixing that, now foraging will be harder to level - good idea to start balancing the game 1 month after release - I'd hate to be a new player that starts after patch 1 hits ...

[zzeii]

That works for pikes, now try to the same equation with magic amplifiers (once we're able to get a skill above 100 on them). Two of your three materials cannot be quartered from carnivores/kitens, so you're left either foraging for the majority of your mats or getting people to kill mass amounts of herbivores (as it seems to take roughly 4-5 herbivores to be killed to get 1 eye off them).

Now move from weapons to armor, where you need crafters who make all 3 types, and all 5/6 pieces per type, and they're all seperate skills which have to be leveled up. Medium and heavy crafters are lucky enough to only need to get lining from harvesting, light crafters have to get lining and cloth (the majority of the mats to make the items).

edit: forgot to add the jewelry makers - where none of the items used drop off kiten/carnivores, so they must level up entirely on foraged or herbivore drop items.

not to be rude.... but...

Yes, not all of them drop frequently, but, aside from light armor/jewelry/mace type things. over half to two-thirds of every peice of gear can be made from mats that drop from carnivores/kitin

I had mentioned that.

Still, a reduction in 25-33% (1 clip + 1 stuffing vs 2-3 lining + 2-3 cloth)of mats needed for light armor, 40% for magic amp (8 shafts vs 2 grip + 10 focus), 20% reduction in mace types (2h mace is 4 shaft vs 4 grip + 8 hammer + 4 counterweight) is at least some ease in that struggle. Yes, we all know killing herbs for jewel mats is a lost cause, I've tried getting enough for a set, takes a long time to do.

Now pike can use 70% quartered mats, HA is 18 out of 26 for easily obtainable quartered mats (over 2/3rds, I don't feel like working out an exact ratio) for the helm/pants/vest, MA likewise has a significantly reduced amount. 2h Sword is at 60% (8 blade + 4 shaft vs 4 grip + 4 counterweight I think, 2h axe should be the same mebbe, don't feel like looking up the exact specifics). Which is a drastic reduction in burden on the harvesters.

Now please, I tried being constructive in my post in giving an alternate way to gather the mats for grinding. And I gave the exceptions, which were blatently ignored, and then critiqued by you. Now that I gave a more detailed example of the impact of how much quartered mats can have on the crafters, stop trying to argue a point that was already acknowledged twice now.

Overall, fighters/mages and harvesters need to work together to supply the mats needed to level up a craft. The game is designed for this to take time. Obviously someone can't become a master crafter in a couple months, shouldn't exactly be that way. And I'm glad it isn't. But people working together can make this happen much sooner.

[tayster]

The thing to remember here, from what I read about the game before I got it, that becoming really good in one specific skill isn't supposed to be easy. What I can see from this is that the game changes getting to higher levels, and I like that.

I agree that that much work seems a little overboard, but who know exactly what nevvy had in mind when they made this game? (For some reason I can see the devs giggling at people's confusion, knowling all along that it would happen)

[lazarus]

Yeah it is a short term issue, for the next 6 months your fighters will fight with weapons below their levels - after that the crafters will have eventually caught up. The only ones screwed are new crafters or those without a guild - as usual.

Of course all of that is pointless because by that time noone will be playing the game anymore since there is close to zero content for high level players and it doesn't look like Nevrax will be able to fix that in time before people quit.

The real issue here is the imbalance - Foragers already hit lvl 250, fighters are in their 150s, the crafters are the only ones lagging behind.

Sure, now they are fixing that, now foraging will be harder to level - good idea to start balancing the game 1 month after release - I'd hate to be a new player that starts after patch 1 hits ...

Not trying to be funny, but havn't you shot yourself in the foot a bit with this statement?

Let me explain... I am level 103 in forage and can pull 8 mats from a source 90% of the time. To do that, I use a mix of gentle and aggressive actions with a 50 focus per pull action. The only thing that slows me down is the fact I only have 1150 focus. If there are that many level 200+ foragers, then they will be able to pull even more (not sure how many, say double that) from a q100 source virtually non stop due to having much more focus. Doesn't even have to be choice, anything will do to level.

If that's the case, then surely the crafters are in an ideal position as that way higher level foragers will be able to more than meet the supply, even of q150 mats?

Or could it be that all the wailing from certain people (not saying you) about how 'unbalanced' foragers are is just that - wailing, and there are in fact far fewer level 200+ foragers than people make out, in which case your statement above is true.

My guild is top heavy with foragers, and even those who used the mat specs to increase XP are not over level 200. I believe the highest forager we have is somewhere around 130. The problem we have is finding time to get sufficient fighters etc together to protect the foragers while they collect q150 and above mats. We manage quite nicely to keep our crafters supplied with mats up to q100 and everyone has weapons, armour etc appropriate to their level.

As far as solo players go, I solo a lot (or did before I joined my guild) and had no problem finding sufficient mats to keep myself supplied with weapons and armour. It's true that it would have been more difficult when the craft trees split, but again if you're only supplying yourself then the issue of levelling all those craft trees goes away. If a solo player is trying to level all weapon types and armour types simultaneously, then IMO they're biting off way more than they can chew.

With regard to zero content for high level players, what about the Prime Roots, or travelling to other lands? I've known many people who play games like this and complain of no content and when you ask them "have you been here or done this?" they answer 'no'. I don't imagine for one minute Nevrax planned for people to get to level 250 in a month, and as this game is planned to run for 8 years, to complain after a month that there's no content for high level players is a little premature I think.

If you feel there isn't enough content supplied by Nevrax, make your own. On the Euro server our guild hosts regular events for all players. At the moment we are focussing on travel to other lands to get the spawns and spread our influence. We also have mini events to boost our guild fame in preparation for the new guild amenities such as outposts, and of course we have regular hunting and foraging parties and other activities. All of these events are well attended, and in fact one of them triggered a Kitin invasion which we successfully repelled. Perhaps your guild might try to organise something similar? No rule that says you can't make your own content, all it takes is a little imagination.

[ctusk]

The only thing that slows me down is the fact I only have 1150 focus. If there are that many level 200+ foragers, then they will be able to pull even more (not sure how many, say double that) from a q100 source virtually non stop due to having much more focus. Doesn't even have to be choice, anything will do to level.

Please, level some more before you critique someone. At level 226 foraging your willpower is still not enough to cope with a -64 extraction plan. You will not be able to pull more than 9 mats out of a 75s source, and after 3-4 pulls you will be out of focus.

With regard to zero content for high level players, what about the Prime Roots, or travelling to other lands? I've known many people who play games like this and complain of no content and when you ask them "have you been here or done this?" they answer 'no'. I don't imagine for one minute Nevrax planned for people to get to level 250 in a month, and as this game is planned to run for 8 years, to complain after a month that there's no content for high level players is a little premature I think.

I have been to all the lands, I have all the spawnpoints in the game, in addition to that I have been through the prime roots. What is there to do? Kill mobs. That's about it. Oh, and quests to kill mobs. Oh and quests to spot mobs. Oh and quests to forage.

Seriously - I don't want to ruin your fun - enjoy the game. What I am saying is that what you have experienced in your first 100 levels is what you will see for the next 150 - there is nothing else in the game at this point besides leveling and killing mobs. Unless Nevrax hurries up and puts the promised content into the game I see a lot of people leave fairly soon.