Faction Nerfs...

[blaah]

It was a bad thing from a game design perspective to remove the kitin patrols, where in the lore did they explain this?

explain safe zones using lore. both pve and pvp.

[arfindel]

Jena and Ma Duk are not obliged to give tps ok... but what about the undergorund tribes... fame with them is useless, why not fame with a kara protected tribe give you the right to use kara tps and kami protected tribe give you the right to use the kami ones.

Make it as hard as you want, actually I am sure it's a lot more fun to run for real hard missions than for the boring to death ones at surface. Whatever we may be crazy about pvp and factions, there is no game maker who seriously could think neutrals access to pve/craft skills should be limited.

Making PR real hard on the other side will slow camping the bosses and make them more of a guild event than a routine after reset run from one to the next one. How long it takes now (with tps!) to kill all that spawn in Wasteland? Less than an hour for 3 trained teams (not full teams, mind you).

On the other side anyone with AoD taken (a month work without cats and time or a month with cats and less time) can run most of the end game area without dieing. Had 3 people in guild who crossed everywhere at about level 70.

Plus nobody born in the last year on Atys has seen these famous patrols (except those from Loria), plus the pve lacks challenge most of the time - a lot because the rigidity of levels and too little distinction between damage types (but that's another story) - so I bet would be a lot of fun to have the patrols back and make the PR a real hard zone.

[vguerin]

explain safe zones using lore. both pve and pvp.

I assume you mean non-PvP zones, as safe zones around teleports can be easily explained.

[blaah]

I assume you mean non-PvP zones, as safe zones around teleports can be easily explained.

teleport/spawn safe zones yep, both pvp and pve.

also, how do lore explain that kami tp is protecting kara homin (and other way around) ? they just nice, eh ?

[akicks]

The lore doesn't support this, Jena and Ma-Duk are not OBLIGATED to give neutrals ANY tps.

It was a bad thing from a game design perspective to remove the kitin patrols, where in the lore did they explain this?

Where did I mention lore?

I am going on about how difficult the game will be, and how fun it will be at that difficulty. If something in the game is near impossible to do it will not be fun. There is a point where being unable to do something you want to do just becomes frustration and not the challenge it was meant to be.

While I see your point, the lore should have an affect on the design process of the game, it should not be the only thing used to judge a change.

[gendriks]

Fair enough, bring back Kitin patrols, but make sure to add these too at the same time:
- Spires affecting Altars
- Harsher Kami tolerance
- Excellents and supremes that don't automatically fill up at the start of season or reboot but on a random timer within it's season (same for the supreme mobs)

I agree (for what that's worth).

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

[tylarth]

for most of that the KT, bosses + pr mats timers just need their timers saved for reboots.

[sluggo0]

Where did I mention lore?

I am going on about how difficult the game will be, and how fun it will be at that difficulty. If something in the game is near impossible to do it will not be fun. There is a point where being unable to do something you want to do just becomes frustration and not the challenge it was meant to be.

While I see your point, the lore should have an affect on the design process of the game, it should not be the only thing used to judge a change.

Well in a way I see that point, that sometimes game mechanics aren't always supported by the lore, however -- the point of a MMO *R* PG is roleplaying. Thus, the lore is tantamount in making any game design decisions, and if the lore doesn't support a game mechanic, it shouldn't exist, unless it makes the game unplayable for a majorirty of players (like the pvp safe zones, coudl have lore behind them but dont need it, it just makes things more fair for all).

The story said that the TPs in PR and 250 zones were only given to the faithful, therfore that is all that matters in whether or not you have access to them.

Nexus is neutral friendly, and with practice gives you easy access to 3 PR zones. So is the case with Knoll of Dissent karavan, giving you access to a 4th PR zone.

I'm sorry that being neutral has hardships associated with it, they were explained to you all when you made that choice, neutral isn't a particularly valid choice story wise, it's just a lack of choosing a side.

Making the kitin patrols skirt very widely the portals that neutrals can access means they have the same effect on you guys, which can be a concession that doesn't sacrifice the back story's integrity (and could even be integrated).

They are missing, making PR far less challenging than it should be, and weren't explained, they should be restored.

[rushin]

Atys is a planet where homins live in awe and worship the higher powers of the kami and karavan. said higher powers reward their devout with high level pacts. The concept of neutrality doesnt fit into this, and goes against the grain of how a homin would choose to behave if you consider the difficult lifestyles we live and the powers they have. still you are able to do it. But accept that you are rebelling and wont have the benefits you might have done.

But that is beside the point. If you find that 5 mins of travelling to get to a PR zone is too much of a hardship please understand that you are not going to be a PR digger. We spend hours and hours waiting around for mats to pop, for aggro to move for a moment so we can slip through tiny gaps to reach a safer area. It's a complete non issue.

The removal of patrols has made the PR boring and easy, it hasnt made it good for neutrals, its made it bad for everyone. As i suggested earlier remove the tp's from wastelands if it will somehow make neutral players feel better about themselves because in the grand scheme of things they make very little difference to anyone who digs there seriously.

and lexius try reading what you write, i mentioned mission mats next to tp's because the only time i have seen you in the pr thats where you were, amusingly 30m away from the supreme motega that was up, the rest you said yourself earlier in this thread, so dont throw a tantrum please.

[aardnebb]

OK, I see a lot of people using the lore as an excuse for nerfing neutrals, and for some that fits their playstyle, for others it just seems to be something they use when it suits their purpose and ignore the rest of the time.

1. neutrality is not necesarily a lack of choice, sometimes it's a choice.

2. There are a number of possible lore explanations for neutral access to areas. (Trytonist rainbow bridges, increased costs for TPs etc)

3. From a gameplay perspective, it is damaging to neutral players to include Kitin Patrols without granting them PR TPs. As this goes agaisnt the previous gameplay style of freedom, this is a potentially subscription losing option, and from a business perspective is thus a bad idea.

After this anything else is rehashing the same old arguments. I am not going to comment further unless something new is brought up.