free ryzom?

[keithlan]

Maintaining, saving, even improving the game in the future, have always been the main aims of ryzom.org.

Ryzom was supposed to be an open source game from its creation time. What the ryzom.org community tries to do is basically to retrieve Ryzom's roots and the spirit of its creators. But the main goal has always been to sustain the game, first and foremost.

Anyway, now the fate of Ryzom lies in the hands of the french administration, and we can debate over and over whether the plan was good or not, whether it was nicely presented or not, we'll know soon enough.

About the future : I cannot tell if promises will (or would) be kept or not : but I believe in Ryzom and I fight for it, and will continue to do so, whoever the "winner" is. I just hope there will be one.

[grimjim]

So come over, help us improve it

I do read the forums there and it tends to give me an anger headache given a lot of the attitudes etc expressed, so it's probably best I don't.

[kaetemi]

I do read the forums there and it tends to give me an anger headache given a lot of the attitudes etc expressed, so it's probably best I don't.

I do read the forums here and it tends to give me an anger headache given a lot of the attitudes etc expressed, so it's probably best I don't.

[ummax]

We do it not only for our selves, but strange as it may sound for you too (yea, I know - we weren't asked to so who gives a flying ... right? ).

Nevertheless, exhaust and feeling underappreciated occasionally leads to silliness.

See the point is that it was never even put to the community how they would like it done, some guys came up with a plan and put up a site and another handful of people went over there and they say they are working for the community.

Now logically if this was happening you would see us cheering on these boards, but we are not. We are in fact leary of it, dont trust it, dont want a free opensource game and a bunch of other things. So I'm not sure how that works for us.

... and yes I have read the website (finally once the traffic would let me) its turned into an "us against them" thing and you are probably the only polite person speaking on their behalf AND PLEASE DONT CHANGE lol its refreshing.

If everyone presented themselves like you there would be less problem, but anyhow that is another issue.

The big thing is that a lot of us feel and I know I do that we are being told its for us, but in fact its not and the reason we aren't there is because we dont agree with what is going on and would be shouted down in a heartbeat for saying so (as we have been here ..... on our own community boards..)

Also the misinformation and accusations against even nevrax and jolt who run the game presently have been well massive.

The list was endless and honestly the first group of people coming over here were quite obviously disgruntled ex-somethings and it turned out they were.

Anyhow if it does go to you I wish you luck but I know I and many likely wont be there because its not the kind of game we want to play it will even if you dont intend for it to happen end like any other freesource project since its freesource and there is no single voice it will splinter into focus interest groups and servers will pop up everywhere with their own little versions of ryzom. I know that you think you can control the beast, but I guarantee you that you wont hehe in the end you will end up without a central community (like here) and the work will be all over the place and there will be strange wierd tailor made concepts of ryzom all over the planet. Its just how it goes and well this community is used to a larger client base which will only disintegrate using that model into little tiny ones. That is what a lot of us are trying to avoid which is basicaly the death of this present community.

The fact ryzom.org has already splintered off has proven that it will die because you have already formed your plan without everyones input. Its different from what exists now and it will only get worse. It also wont result in a high quality game which is what most of us want and pay for.

(also I have learned that the best thing to do with kaetemi is ignore him he is one of the rude ones that comes and trolls for no other reason other then hatred and is what most of us have seen up to this time. We have had trolls, angry pushy and aggressive people trying to ram stuff down our throat that we dont like the taste of.. It doesn't work that way hehe sorry)

[rheda]

Ummax, I think I've always tried to politely answer any questions made here, and update from time to time with fresh news as they reach us at ryzom.org.

I'd like to know if I have ever been as rude or impolite as you in any single post (here or wherever). I suppose the main difference between our attitudes is clear, since you'll often find quotes like "sorry if you were offended, it was not my intention" on my texts, not like in yours.

I haven't got anything else to add, since I'm quitting this boards for obvious reasons, but to re-re-quote something that has been said many times about ryzom.org: "we're a community, so if you think you can help improve the common project... come participate, you will be welcome".

And that's all

[kyrix]

Does your account have to be active to post? I can access the forum as anonymous but not when I am logged in (with my former account)
wow, its been a while. Hi everybody!

For those who don't know me, I am an almost-x-ryzom player (kyrix from the Darkmoor Rangers that found out only recently that nevrax is in "trouble" and ryzom.org wants to GPL the code. I was very excited about this, but was somewhat shocked when I saw how many players are against it.

First let me clear what I consider are some misconceptions on what GPL is or is not. The GPL license is both OPENSOURCE and FREE (as in freedom and beer). The GPL applies to software code, the equivalent for artwork, story, etc... would be a creative commons license.

The GPL states that you can use the software, modify it, and redistribute it, but if you redistribute, you also have to distribute the code (with the changes you've made, that is)

The GPL in it's current version (v.2) does not cover distribution of code over networks, as the affero license does, for example (http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html).

In practise, this means that if the ryzom code is GPL'd, I could take the ryzom code, modify the game, add functionality, change the world upside down. I can create a company, host the game on my servers, and distribute my new "ryzom client" with its code. But I don't HAVE to distribute the server code.

In other words, "freeing" the ryzom code with the GPL does not prevent a company from taking the code, making an exceptional game BASED on that code, call it whatever it wants (might not have anything to do with atys at all), and make a sucessfull game while making a lot of money with the subscriptions. The client would be free, of course. If the company is not evil, it will give code "back" to the community, or small contributions. That doesn't mean they have to free their artwork and story either.

What does this mean for the gaming world, and the FSF in particular?
Making a game like WoW, Ryzom, etc... takes a lot of effort. It's a lot of code, that takes several professional full time employed programmers XXXXXX man-hours to develop. Opensource and free projects move slowly in this area, most volunteers might be very good programmers, but have to work too, and you can't get much done in your "free time", and there has been little commercial interest behind these projects, like there is behind other sucessfull opensource projects like linux, firefox, apache, etc...

But the opensource and free game scene could change dramatically if ryzom becomes opensource. Dozens of COMPANIES with great ideas could use it as their BASE code to make a NEW game. Some might fail, some might be the game of our dreams, a lot of good ideas that are normally lost can be possible because the code base that is there saves a lot of money and time.
In my opinion, that is the main reason why the FSF has made such a substantial pledge, because there is much value to what this could bring to the FSF world. Damn, since I left ryzom I have been thinking of an extremely cool game I bet most ryzom people would love, but out of my reach (I am a lazy developer, i have no money, and I am a terrible businessman, so what can i do?) but could be in reach now, as for many other people with cool ideas...

And this will benefit all gamers, enabling more people to compete in the gaming market will improve game play in general.

But how does this effect the ryzom GAME and COMMUNITY?
I would say the future is then very uncertain. I am not sure what the ryzom.org people want or can do. They might create a company, take over the servers, continue with the existing subscriptions and try to continue to develop the Ryzom game. They would be in exactly the same position as Nevrax today, little money and lots of work to do, except that they might draw the attention and work of many volunteers. Coders, geeks or just normal people to help out with paperwork, artwork, or whatever. With the whole GPL and Free buzz out there, some sponsors might provide the server infrastructure. Opensource companies like redhat or IBM might be interested in contributing. Don't think opensource or free means some geeks with no work and too much free time working unprofessionally. Some opensource projects might be, but others or very very professional and successful (both by use as moneywise)

Would it be better for a company to take over? In my opinion, no. For both the FSF as the ryzom community. In my experience, when a good project is in the hands of the opensource community, the projects normally advance faster and better, but most of all they have the community in mind, which you cannot say of every company. If a big company buys ryzom, it will drop it as fast as it picked it up if it doesnt bring ENOUGH profits. Besides all the cool games that might be coming our way...

I wanted to continue this post, but auriane (she say hello to all of u too) wants to go to bed...

good night atys...
kyrix

[acridiel]

Thanks for the clarification.

So, simply put:
The Game we all came to love, is caught between a rock and a hard place. *sigh*

CU
Acridiel

[ummax]

Ummax, I think I've always tried to politely answer any questions made here, and update from time to time with fresh news as they reach us at ryzom.org.

I'd like to know if I have ever been as rude or impolite as you in any single post (here or wherever). I suppose the main difference between our attitudes is clear, since you'll often find quotes like "sorry if you were offended, it was not my intention" on my texts, not like in yours.

I haven't got anything else to add, since I'm quitting this boards for obvious reasons, but to re-re-quote something that has been said many times about ryzom.org: "we're a community, so if you think you can help improve the common project... come participate, you will be welcome".

And that's all

hehe actually i have never seen you in this thread answering before the people that were in this thread being rude are for the most part gone thankfully and I hope they stay gone. If you have been answering questions they weren't mine (mind you I dont actualy have any because there is no reason to have any) I wanted to know if the sourcode and artwork alone etc was being bought and yes that is what is being bought anyhow that is what worries me unless the plan has changed again to take over servers the previous information that was posted on ryzom was a bid for sourcode, and artwork and that kinda stuff nothing was mentioned of servers etc.

Anyhow as I said there really is nothing to ask I'm not a huge fan of open sources stuff and that wont be changing anytime soon its just me and who I am. There is less drama if a large company making all the decisions takes over it gets done and that is that.

Anyow since this has all happened and myst online is opening up soon I have just given up on this unless there is a takeover by a company that has cash behind it and experience (then I will stay) otherwise for me its over i'm playing other games right now and reading the news basically and login to ryzom every few days to play.

Anyhow the questions I did have I noticed someone else asked and they were labelled a troll on that forum for asking so that leaves me out i'm not interested in being called a troll or whatever for having a legitimate concern regarding the backers and their ethics

/shrug

[avaeran]

Anyhow the questions I did have I noticed someone else asked and they were labelled a troll on that forum for asking so that leaves me out i'm not interested in being called a troll or whatever for having a legitimate concern regarding the backers and their ethics

/shrug

As a new person to both the Ryzom.org forums and these ones, I can tell you very swiftly which has seemed more reasonable, approachable, and welcoming to me.

The post you are referencing in the other forum ends with a personal insult that appears based more on rumour and innuendo than fact. "Sure the plan you have sounds great, but you lack integrity." Even so, it was answered with patience and although dismissed by some as an attempt to troll, it conveys no venom as far as I can see.

When I gave the opinion of a former Nevrax founder on this project, without saying anything other than that it was an interesting perspective that might not have been seen, I was called trash, accused of spreading propaganda (sorry, but I do give weight to the opinions of those involved at a higher level than merely playing - just because it is a different opinion to your own doesn't make it propaganda), and it was implied that by starting to play this game I was contributing to its demise by casting aspersions upon my person as some sort of 'open source folk'. I don't even know what that means, anyone who sees merit in this game as a community-supported project is unwelcome here?

Despite the apparent hostility directed to newbies here, I do acknowledge that Ryzom.org has a lot of work to do in communicating better with the established players who feel they are not being heard. I posted about this on the Ryzom.org forums, with a very helpful response at http://www.ryzom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1796#1796. Maybe that will go someway towards fostering better cooperation.

[kyrix]

So, simply put:
The Game we all came to love, is caught between a rock and a hard place. *sigh*

Well, kind of. There are some advantages to the opensource model that might bring in a lot of money and activity. If ryzom.org uses all the buzz and news right, they might be able to attract opensource companies like redhat, ubuntu or IBM. They might be interested in using the code for non-gaming applications. (even stuff like simple 3d chats can be implemented), ryzom benefits in money and code contributions.

So I do think this could work out very well. Maybe even better as a big company with huge loads of money willing to make their users happy and not worrying about profits