Xavier's still at it :)

[grimjim]

You all talks about jolt"s CSRs.
Can I remeber you that they are not jolt's CSR but only some community member who voluntered to help? Why a system based on voluntary participation would be a great thing with jolt and a bad thint in a project like ryzom.org ? jolt are not the only one which know how to manage voluntarians...

Perhaps because Jolt SEEM to be accomplished cat-herders and you need authority to come from somewhere in these sorts of situations to ensure things get done.

Ideologically I'm an anarchist but the real world, unfortunately, doesn't work very well that way.

[aelia]

But consider that the other potential buyers have absolutely no obligation to work with Jolt either and that they might get rid of the current system as well.

Exactly. In all the posts here is postulated that Jolt will stay in line for the support, independent who will buy Ryzom away from Xaviers project.
Have you ever thought about the fact, that Vivendi, SoE, NCSoft and others will bring their own established support people? And you will get the "support" players now have in WoW, EQ2 etc.

The CSR system is based on voluntary work, most of them are not paid by Jolt (unless you consider that a free account is a payment form, which it is somewhat).

Since most of the unpaid volunteers in Ryzom doing this job for the game and the community, not for Jolt, you can be sure to meet again some of them continuing with this job also in Xaviers Project.

[ashling]

You all talks about jolt"s CSRs.
Can I remeber you that they are not jolt's CSR but only some community member who voluntered to help? Why a system based on voluntary participation would be a great thing with jolt and a bad thint in a project like ryzom.org ? jolt are not the only one which know how to manage voluntarians...

EverQuest 1 used part volunteers and had (when I played anyway) a much much worse customer service then Ryzom. That doesn't mean another volunteer system can't work well of course but they want to drop the BEST customer service I've ever seen for a maybe

and as a final side point where will those volunteers for customer service come from? From the current players? As much as I like the community here I wouldn't trust many of us to be un biased when handling harassment complaints.

ashling : "I still think ditching Jolt is an awfull idea and that the heads of ryzom.org all want to doesn't improve my opinion of that."

-> My point was that Lejade and Lacambre must know what their are doing with the servers, they aren't newbees. I don't know who you are so i can't tell if they know more than you on this subject, but i think so. Whereas they know better than me

Luinil

Ah ok well I wasn't actuelly saying anything about servers. Lacambre is likely to know what he is doing with servers if he is a 'a web hosting specialist' but Lejade probably only knows general information about servers. None of that gurantees they are making the best choices for the players though, only that they will makes the ones they feel can work best with their finances.

Two very different things and the droping of Jolt for customer support in my opinion already shows that they would have to make cuts in the quality of service from the current standard.

[iphdrunk]

I think you miss an important point here. The CSR system is based on voluntary work, most of them are not paid by Jolt (unless you consider that a free account is a payment form, which it is somewhat).

Yes, I am aware of that, ... and yes, you have a point. Nevertheless, there is a hierarchy and a system with rules, a notion of responsability. Guides and Senior Guides, based on volunteering work and with a personal effort and willing to help, and they get my respect for that. Then there are GM, paid staff and a Senior Game Master to overview things, (without mentioning Event Guides, Event Game Masters and so on) yet, it takes some policy.

While you are right in stating that a volunteer-based system may work, it's when the things get tight that the "official" kicks in: Yes, a properly trained Guide can answer most of the gameplay and technical issues, and answer some tickets. But covering the server 24h/7 day, with full shifts, solving important technical account-based issues, examining server logs to solve issues, restoring missing items, (A guide asking me my billing details?) managing the server "tricksy" tickets requiring a ban, or a warning, *impartially*, spawning objects, controlling events.. Being called at 4AM that the server needs a reboot....Of course it CAN be done in a voluntary basis, and of course, some of these things can be done by the hosting company..... but you see no risks here? no "cry foul I bet that GM is in that guild!"...responsability, impartial, chain of trust, experience...

"Guides discussing and having conflicting views with each other?" nah, can't happen
"Guides and GMs abusing their status to? ", impossible
"Players (rightfully/wrongfully) accusing CSRs of doing ?" nopes, not here

And when it is a free project with GPL code people refrain from complaining, they have little basis to... but with a monthly fee, things change and support is requested often.

[ashling]

But consider that the other potential buyers have absolutely no obligation to work with Jolt either and that they might get rid of the current system as well.
[/SIZE]

A good point but I'd dislike anyone else droping Jolt and complain about them doing it too! Just because others might doesn't mean I can't say I don't like that Ryzom.org will if they get the rights to Ryzom

[flume641]

Yes, I am aware of that, ... and yes, you have a point. Nevertheless, there is a hierarchy and a system with rules, a notion of responsability. Guides and Senior Guides, based on volunteering work and with a personal effort and willing to help, and they get my respect for that. Then there are GM, paid staff and a Senior Game Master to overview things, (without mentioning Event Guides, Event Game Masters and so on) yet, it takes some policy.

While you are right in stating that a volunteer-based system may work, it's when the things get tight that the "official" kicks in: Yes, a properly trained Guide can answer most of the gameplay and technical issues, and answer some tickets. But covering the server 24h/7 day, with full shifts, solving important technical account-based issues, examining server logs to solve issues, restoring missing items, (A guide asking me my billing details?) managing the server "tricksy" tickets requiring a ban, or a warning, *impartially*, spawning objects, controlling events.. Being called at 4AM that the server needs a reboot....Of course it CAN be done in a voluntary basis, and of course, some of these things can be done by the hosting company..... but you see no risks here? no "cry foul I bet that GM is in that guild!"...

Heh, we just have to look from the side a bit... as we have no control what so ever.

[ashling]

Exactly. In all the posts here is postulated that Jolt will stay in line for the support, independent who will buy Ryzom away from Xaviers project.
Have you ever thought about the fact, that Vivendi, SoE, NCSoft and others will bring their own established support people? And you will get the "support" players now have in WoW, EQ2 etc.

I'd complain if any of those got rid of Jolt too. Well except if it was SoE then I'd just cancel

[keithlan]

and as a final side point where will those volunteers for customer service come from? From the current players? As much as I like the community here I wouldn't trust many of us to be un biased when handling harassment complaints.

Well, that's exactly how it works now. Support is done by volunteers right now, nothing new under the sun.

Of course it CAN be done in a voluntary basis, and of course, some of these things can be done by the hosting company..... but you see no risks here? no "cry foul I bet that GM is in that guild!"...

Yes Jolt acts as moderator now. I am not 100% sure they can decide who is ban or not, I think these decisions currently go directly to Nevrax (I speak of definite bans). There is absolutely no reason why ryzom.org and its member cannot handle that as well.

Billing details as such are not handled by Jolt either. They are currently delt with by an external specialized company, and that is what most companys are doing when you subscribe to an online game with a recurring payment (I don't know any of them which does not use an external billing compagny).

As per the GM being part of a guild, or being a guild leader, so pursuing selfish interests, the problem does exist right now. This problem has never been properly addressed by Jolt, IMHO.

[ashling]

Well, that's exactly how it works now. Support is done by volunteers right now, nothing new under the sun.

Not exactly. Decissions on if something is harrasement or deserves a ban goes through Jolt staff, they either make the decission or if your right pass on the ones they think might be worthy of a ban. Without Jolt what does Ryzom.org do for that? Hire their own internal staff to do it or take on volinteers for it? If hiring their own staff getting rid of Jolt is less and less of a money saving and if taking on volinteers for the those decissions is even worse because now the bias goes right up to the power to ban.

[keithlan]

Ashling, I wonder whether you read what I say. It seems you're not.