Proposal: PvE Outposts

[d1sco123]

Thanks for the clarification on the effect OPs have on PvE content. As to trying to justify a bonus for PvP: I can only say that the bonuses for PvP should only have an effect on the PvP aspect of gameplay, and that if the PvP content is affecting PvE, then it should be "fixed." I don't think PvE OPs would be able to "fix" the imbalance. I think limiting the effects of PvP benefits to PvP would though. So while I don't agree with PvP affecting PvE, I don't think a PvE OP is the solution.

[aardnebb]

Thanks for the clarification on the effect OPs have on PvE content. As to trying to justify a bonus for PvP: I can only say that the bonuses for PvP should only have an effect on the PvP aspect of gameplay, and that if the PvP content is affecting PvE, then it should be "fixed." I don't think PvE OPs would be able to "fix" the imbalance. I think limiting the effects of PvP benefits to PvP would though. So while I don't agree with PvP affecting PvE, I don't think a PvE OP is the solution.

I would agree with a solution of XP cats being removed and OP weapons only working in PvP. Also the stat booster flowers only working while you are somehow "PvP enabled". Thats another possible solution, but I dont want to limit myself to just one. I dont mind ANY solution that balances the time + effort expended -> benefits ratio. But ATM its _WAY_ off, and thats not fair for non PvP players.

[vguerin]

There are plenty of situations where better armour, weapons etc can be useful. People dont just fight in PvP, they fight Kitin etc. Why do PvPers need better armour anyway? Why do they need to level twice as fast as anyone else?

Justify the PvP bonuses! dont ask us to justify our requests for equality.

If your making a conscious choice to not take part in a major game aspect, why are you complaining about those benefitting from it. I am not talking about PvP, you guys are quite involved in that, I am talking about coop playing. OP's are not about PvP, but there is a PvP aspect to them.

To own an OP, so far Melinoe has HAD to PvP 3 times, once for takeover and twice for defense. For months we have held the OP, because we are part of a community. If your making your own community off to the side and not taking part quit crying about those that are involved in the gameplay. It's almost as silly as your posts about why R2 scenario's with fighting get more bonuses than those where you enter a scenario and say to each other "I am drinking fyros wine now". Come on man, you cannot take yourself seriously and we certainly don't !

[aardnebb]

Blah blah PVP ftw blah.

Blah blah RP sucks

uhuh, a most reasoned argument. Coop play involves killing your co-players characters? Astounding! How did I miss that? I guess all that time grouping and hunting mobs musta really messed with my head.

If I want cats I should join the KA and goose-step to your tune? Well thanks for the offer, but erm.. well.. lets just say the pleasure of your company does not entice me.

And as for your comment on RP... well, I guess your contempt for such a large proportion of the game explains why you are so unpopular even amongst KA guilds on this here MMORPG.

I'm not sure who the "we" you refer to is (hint: when you start talking about yourself in the plural therapy is the usual next step), but frankly though many peoples opinions matter to me, yours isnt one of them. So feel free not to share in future.

[d1sco123]

Here's my alternate solution to the problem presented herein. Open a new skill tree that gives similar benefits but for a limited time. Food could be used to buff stats temporarily, create effects on the character (less failed spells, higher spell resists, etc.). Alchemy could be used to create those effects and effects on weapons (flaming damage, things like that). These things would of course require only PvE-acquired materials to create. How does everyone feel about this suggestion?

[vguerin]

uhuh, a most reasoned argument. Coop play involves killing your co-players characters? Astounding! How did I miss that? I guess all that time grouping and hunting mobs musta really messed with my head.

If I want cats I should join the KA and goose-step to your tune? Well thanks for the offer, but erm.. well.. lets just say the pleasure of your company does not entice me.

And as for your comment on RP... well, I guess your contempt for such a large proportion of the game explains why you are so unpopular even amongst KA guilds on this here MMORPG.

I'm not sure who the "we" you refer to is (hint: when you start talking about yourself in the plural therapy is the usual next step), but frankly though many peoples opinions matter to me, yours isnt one of them. So feel free not to share in future.

As ignorant as ever it seems... I wander thru Atys freely with Karavan tags on doing as I choose... I partake in in the defense of all KA guilds and won't let a someone part of a guild that couldn't hold an OP tell me where I stand. Any of them can always ask that "I" or Melinoe don't help them... You social interactions are meaningless gamewise.

You made this statement not me:

These rewards are _more_ limited than the PvP versions, take more time and effort to aquire and will unfortunately lead to "hack-n-slash" scenarios designed only for farming, while social, puzzle and other scenarios are left out in the cold...

When those you entertain want to speak for themselves and not have a flunky do it I welcome it, hell I look forward to it. Until then you're just crying over spilled milk. I feel RP means playing a role, you feel it is social... In either case it is not close to the same thing as earning something thru action not words... Again, you want to talk out of place, be specific... I promise I won't run...

[EDIT] No player has ever died in Atys, only thier accounts... !

[grimjim]

As ignorant as ever it seems... I wander thru Atys freely with Karavan tags on doing as I choose... I partake in in the defense of all KA guilds and won't let a someone part of a guild that couldn't hold an OP tell me where I stand. Any of them can always ask that "I" or Melinoe don't help them... You social interactions are meaningless gamewise.

When those you entertain want to speak for themselves and not have a flunky do it I welcome it, hell I look forward to it. Until then you're just crying over spilled milk. I feel RP means playing a role, you feel it is social... In either case it is not close to the same thing as earning something thru action not words... Again, you want to talk out of place, be specific... I promise I won't run...

[EDIT] No player has ever died in Atys, only thier accounts... !

Oh, amusing, you speaking of ignorance. Glass (Amber?) houses and stones I think.

Where to start...

'Couldn't hold an OP' - We could and did with a cross factional alliance before it became trendy to have one due to the blundering (again!) selfishness of a certain mostly-factional alliance prompted people to build one. We gave up the OP because it was causing us OOC stress, was not even remotely what was promised, exposed us to PvP outside our own terms and didn't forward the story the way OPs should have. R2 has provided us with something far MORE like OPs were envisioned as being. A living, breathing, growing guild settlement and a story that is about rebuilding and resettlement. So stop repeating your 'big enough lie, often enough', it just makes you look like a <mammary gland>.

The 'role' that you feel comes into 'role-playing' is a positional role. This would be interpreted as a rather shallow characterisation similar to 'class' in D&D. It is like meeting someone at a party who describes themselves as 'Oh, I'm a computer programmer' - It doesn't actually tell you anything about the person. Even you have a little more depth to your RP than your 'role' in that sense, even if it is only 'fanatic' which is about the most shallow and simplistic RP there can be since it reduces everything to black and white. Good for beginners though. Perhaps you should find something a bit more challenging though?

Roleplaying is not simply about playing out a 'job', it is about taking on a personality, acting as they would act in responding to what is going on around them. This is more than 'crafter, digger, fighter, mage' or even 'Barbarian, Fighter, Cleric, Thief, Wizard, Sorceror' this is things like...

* World weary retired soldier who has witnessed too much horror in war.
* Person raised in religious society who is starting to have doubts and have feelings for someone on the other 'side'.
* Hard-bitten ex guard who has seen the seedy underbelly of the society they once patriotically guarded.

Roleplaying is about the portrayal of personality, history, context. Thinking as someone else for a short while.

You want to talk about the value of action, not words? Particularly as it relates to R2 and its rewards? Fine, we can do that too. What's more challenging? Cutting down a few creatures in a standard hunt formation or winning the trust of a suspicious tribal leader through negotiations? Or solving a twelve-stage riddle puzzle that actually makes you think? Or any number of other social/mental challenges?

You, quite manifestly, lack imagination and the ability to roleplay but don't project your own flaws onto other people and expect them to be as limited in scope and grasp as yourself. Cheers.

[kokunze]

Here's my alternate solution to the problem presented herein. Open a new skill tree that gives similar benefits but for a limited time. Food could be used to buff stats temporarily, create effects on the character (less failed spells, higher spell resists, etc.). Alchemy could be used to create those effects and effects on weapons (flaming damage, things like that). These things would of course require only PvE-acquired materials to create. How does everyone feel about this suggestion?

Nice idea...

initially nevrax planned to release a so called "major patch" 6 months after launch. This should have new skilltrees (including taming, alchemy and 2 other), 1 new playable race, 1 new continent and loads of new skills, monsters and regions.

That newver happend. The reason is, that is too much wirk for the small team. They prefered focussing on the missing items like ops, mounts and rites.

So your idea is nice, but too much work if you compare it with my proposal for the pve-ops. That was the basic idea of the pvp ops. To reduce the amount of work for nevrax and implement something which does not need again 1 or 2 yours to be finished.

[nogala]

I have to ask this question. If you're not competing with other players, why does it matter if you have worse equipment? I again point to the fact that this game was fine before OPs came in. Is it that you want an easier time of doing what you were doing before they were implemented? Cause that's why people do PvP, and risk their equipment degrades, time, and resources. Do you have any concept of how much time and materials go into setting up a good PvP campaign? If you want your plan to work and be remotely on par with PvP, you'll need to double your costs for holding a PvE OP.

If PvP is so much fun, why does it need special rewards to make players want to engage in it?

The number of players who would like to own and build on territory is huge. The number who want to engage in PvP to do so is a fraction of that. I would love to see the devs do something to address that.