OP battle, PvP the way it is!

[danolt]

I think every player would like to see a way for every guild to be able to get an OP. As players we just can't make that happen. Nevrax however, can.

The arguments about OP's will be here regardless of whether there is an alliance or not. You think these threads are bad, go back and look and see what happened to the poor fall guy who made the first declaration.

I tend to disagree with the conventional wisdom of these boards almost all the time. Nevrax has been very deliberate in forming our cultures. The conflict between the Kami and the Karavan is the core plot device. By placing a limited number of OP's they forced alliances to form, every MMO forms guild alliances, why do people think this one would not?

I would say that the KA is now a fully formed and functional alliance defined by core principals and traditions. We have common goals, a common world view, etc.. The Karavan faction is very real, very defined. Without OP's that never would have happened.

SOooooo, point of post. As far as story line goes, I think limiting OP ownership is no longer needed on this server.

I would like to see the new lands have OP's that can be built by a guild starting at q50 and as diggers, crafters and hunters add mats, the OP grows.

I think fighting amongst ourselves will do nothing but cause more carpal tunnel. Let us ask Nevrax to expand OP ownership so that any guild can earn one if they work hard enough and create a different reward for the faction wars.

[vguerin]

sorry if you current all mighty and powerfull guilds feel this is a tired old argument, but you have never been in the shoes of the arguers, and don't feel cheated by the game itself for not being able toachieve what you want though hard work, time and major effort.

again i'm just very frustrated at the fact that everytime this debate is brought forward, the dominant side feels its just whining.

Is this really the mature community that everyone talks about?

I can only speak for myself in this matter... Your overall post is one of the best on the matter to date, but could you put yourself (for example) in my shoes for a moment. I can understand your PoV, but should "we" (players like you, that just happened to make different and apparently luckier/better choices/allies) feel like we are cheating anyone for playing the game as it was given to us ?

I play this game these days for the "peeps"... the folks I call family in Melinoe, those I beta tested with and trust explicitly and all the new friends made along the way. To me the game is idle, but them "peeps" make the monthly subscription keep going for me... Part of the long history of Melinoe is (like other guilds) owning and defending an outpost since they were launched. By having made the right choices as a guild I don't feel we should be considered as keeping anyone else from anything.

Your example making OotN seem like bullyish offering a challenge to RotS made many of your good points seem out of whack. The origin date of RotS is older than GoJ, but not as old as OotN... but you call RotS valiant and imply that GoJ was less valiant (won however they had to). OotN are a great group of folks and they are not dictating to anyone... They merely made it clear that if someone was wanting a GvG battle they wouldn't waiver. Who owns what in Atys is based on many things but is rarely based on the forums version of how things happen...

[danlufan]

Like Red said, the day will come when Karavan take over all OP's and will then fight each other, allowing the kami to grow strong. Spires might also mix things up, attacks when OP battles are going on

[grimjim]

I can only speak for myself in this matter... Your overall post is one of the best on the matter to date, but could you put yourself (for example) in my shoes for a moment. I can understand your PoV, but should "we" (players like you, that just happened to make different and apparently luckier/better choices/allies) feel like we are cheating anyone for playing the game as it was given to us ?

That's the crux of the dissonance in attitudes right there. You feel that you're playing 'by the rules' but seem unaware of 'unwritten rules', social contract and so forth. It all seems to be about the sense of entitlement and not about the sense of responsibility to the other players or to the game as a whole.

It ties into the cultural and other factors that have, largely, defined people's factional choices and created the problem that we have.

[grimjim]

Is this really the mature community that everyone talks about?

Yes, but when it comes to these arguments you have to consider it as an 'in comparison to...' description.

[philu]

again i'm just very frustrated at the fact that everytime this debate is brought forward, the dominant side feels its just whining.

Well I'm not part of the 'dominant' side and I'm as sick of it as they are. This thread was moving along nicely with some interesting thoughts about how to improve the non-PvP elements of OPs so that those that don't want PvP get some content from OPs too. Did you have to drag up this tired old debate yet again? Give it a rest, it never goes anywhere but to a locked thread!

sorry if you current all mighty and powerfull guilds feel this is a tired old argument, but you have never been in the shoes of the arguers, and don't feel cheated by the game itself for not being able toachieve what you want though hard work, time and major effort.

Try putting yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't want PvP and consider those that have had no real content for a lot longer than you. Mind you that's an even older, even more tired argument but you fail to see the point this thread was making. Lots of people want some non-PvP elemets in OPs as well as the fighting. Those that wont do PvP get NOTHING from OPs.

[rundll32]

I can only speak for myself in this matter... Your overall post is one of the best on the matter to date, but could you put yourself (for example) in my shoes for a moment. I can understand your PoV, but should "we" (players like you, that just happened to make different and apparently luckier/better choices/allies) feel like we are cheating anyone for playing the game as it was given to us ?

And bingo was his nameo. The fact is that the outposts are/were implemented in this way, and we are doing with them exactly what was intended. Though I do understand the frustrations voiced by many people on this subject, I strongly disagree with the view that those of us who partake in the system as it stands are in any way selfish/evil etc. It would be nice if nevrax would do something for the non pvpers. Jyu I apologise for antagonising you, though we clearly disagree on everything, we manage to keep it civil most of the time

[danlufan]

And bingo was his nameo. The fact is that the outposts are/were implemented in this way, and we are doing with them exactly what was intended. Though I do understand the frustrations voiced by many people on this subject, I strongly disagree with the view that those of us who partake in the system as it stands are in any way selfish/evil etc. It would be nice if nevrax would do something for the non pvpers. Jyu I apologise for antagonising you, though we clearly disagree on everything, we manage to keep it civil most of the time

Nice to see we are all agreeing on one matter though, and thats giving the diggers and crafters abilities to take part in the OP stories.

[grimjim]

I strongly disagree with the view that those of us who partake in the system as it stands are in any way selfish/evil etc. It would be nice if nevrax would do something for the non pvpers. Jyu I apologise for antagonising you, though we clearly disagree on everything, we manage to keep it civil most of the time

I can't accept 'the game allows it' as an excuse for what I call antisocial behaviour. I think that understanding is a shift a lot of people need to make when coming to MMOs.

Apology accepted and yes, we do most of the time. I'm just frustrated by the inability to get the point across. Most people I get there eventually but its unclear whether you're understanding - and rejecting it - or just not getting it.

I think we're all agreed more options are needed. Maybe the Kitin thing will do the trick if it doesn't just become standard MMO raid content.

[rundll32]

I fully understand where you're coming from, I just dont agree.

I do not think that attempting to limit those who are happy with the game as it stands is the answer, we're playing the content as nevrax intended, and as we enjoy it. The fact that this alienates some people is a fault on the part of nevrax and not us as far as im concerned. They should be attempting to cater for everyone equally, not us. Otherwise the whole concept of a faction war is null and void.

You can argue that the responsibility lies with the community, but if that is true, then you're expecting the gamers who are currently quite content to effectively destroy there own content, to make others marginally more happy with a system that wasnt designed to cater for them in the first place.

Anyway, we could disagree on this all year....heh and I have a feeling we will