What were they thinkin ?

[rothimar]

I have yet to PvP, so my part of this discussion has been from the perspective of a non-PvP player. The way I see it, if you want to dig near an OP during an OP battle, expect to get caught in the crossfire. Do you play in traffic and wonder why the cars keep hitting you?

As for the aggro dragging issue... you never mentioned anything about it being intentional. That little nugget of information would have prevented a lot of the arguing in this thread.

You don't have to go watch TV, but it might help if you realize the OP battles might get a little messy, and harvesting in the middle of one might get you dead.

And as I have said in at least 2 other posts to this thread... I would imagine the dev's weren't really thinking that someone would be digging in the middle of an OP battle, so hadn't counted on you needing a rez. It's most likely an accidental bug, not some grand sweeping attempt to ruin your afternoon.

I'm sorry for my attitude in this reply, but it irritates me when someone posts a thread without relevant information central to the issue they're posting about, only to throw it in after people have been arguing about it.

I don't personally like the idea of aggro getting dragged into an OP battle, or into anyone for that matter. If I remember correctly, isn't training aggro "against the rules"?

I still stand by my belief that if you are going to be somewhere dangerous, you should be prepared to accept the risk. Digging in the middle of an OP battle might be a tad riskier than if it were in it's normal "safe area" state of being.

As I understand it, the message to the community from this worldview is:

1. Hey we dig this PvP stuff and if we wanna have fun you effectively have to stay out of a 1,000 meter area of where we are playing.

2. Hey I like to aggro drag and now I have a means of getting away with it...cool.

3. If you can't deal with 1 and 2 go watch TV every time we have a war.

Using the logic presented, I should just respawn and then spend the rest of my day "getting payback" by dragging aggro on the healers at the attackers rear.....I'm immune, blast me all ya like...you don't like it...hey an OP battle and the world of Atys is dangerous place....I was just returning from emptying may bag and was on my way to my digging spot...what'd I do wrong ?

Where is the downside of allowing the game mechanics to allow people to correct unintended (or intended) aggro drags on neutral players ? Saying it's a necessary side effect of the neutrals healing combatants fix is like saying the windows in my car must be fused in the up position so rain doesn't come in. That's why they make them so that you can close them when it's appropriate and leave them open when it is appropriate.

Not allowing neutrals to heal combatants is a logical fix. Not allowing combatants to heal neutrals doesn't fix anything, it breaks it.

[varelse]

ever feel like your reading the same thread started by different people with the same people posting answers?

Yup, it's deja vu all over again

[sidusar]

Is it really that easy to ignore certain facts to make things more closely fit into a predetermined world view ?

Do you have to ask?

Seriously though, the thread seems to have to gone a little off-topic. If I'm not mistaken, your initial point was to question the reasoning behind making it impossible for OP tagged players to heal untagged players. The aggro-dragging story just served to illustrate the problem, but most of the replies seem to have turned it into the main point and ignored the healing issue. (If I'm wrong and the aggro-dragging was in fact your main point, feel free to correct me here.)

I'll just say I agree and can think of no reason why a tagged player shouldn't be able to heal an untagged player. This should be fixed asap.

it might help if you realize the OP battles might get a little messy, and harvesting in the middle of one might get you dead.

That's not the main issue. Yes, OP battles are dangerous and you could end up dead from the 'crossfire', even as a neutral. But if it happens, you should at least be able to be healed by the fighting parties.

If one of the participants falls, there's plenty of people there to heal him back up. And even if he does have to respawn, there's no DP. If you fall as a neutral, you do get DP, and none of the participants can heal you even if they want to. It's absurd that an OP battle holds more risk to a neutral digger 200 meter away than to the people actually participating in the battle.

As soon as we start getting DP for dieing in an outpost battle, I'll accept that it's fair if the tagged players can't heal the non-tagged ones.

[vguerin]

6. The person who did the dragging is one I am familiar with and I have seen on more than one occassion strip aggro from themselves by running into an OP and dropping it on sitting afk peeps in outpost areas.

7. I watched the battle for about 20 minutes afterwards from a safe distance and observed numerous obviously planned search for aggro and drag to other side's healers tactics. Guess who was involved.

Even though apparently this homin was on the opposing side in the last battle... It seems clear now your whole original post was based on an agenda to defame him.

First and mainly there is no requirement to heal you at anytime. You said yourself he went on his merry way, so what did/would it matter if he could have rez'd you ?

Like another poster in this thread, if your not liked you may not get a rez

Though I do not see any reason someone faction or OP tagged should not be able to heal untagged homins, there is nothing in your OP showing this was the problem.

Apparently you have issues with this one player and have brought it to the forums instead of using IG support. Your second post really tossed out anything you had going for you... NTM most of the postings are by one guy thats never having been in an OP fight...

What's your point ?

[jamela]

It seems clear now your whole original post was based on an agenda to defame him
....
What's your point ?

That's unfair, the individual has not been named. I think the point was clear - that healing of neutrals has been disabled, strangely, while fixing a major problem. The majority of posters, however, chose to focus on the situation outlined rather than on the point of the thread.

[rothimar]

That's unfair, the individual has not been named. I think the point was clear - that healing of neutrals has been disabled, strangely, while fixing a major problem. The majority of posters, however, chose to focus on the situation outlined rather than on the point of the thread.

I think the point of the thread went off course a bit when I posted, what I had intended to be humorous, about "collateral damage". Shortly thereafter, someone posted what began the PvP vs PvE argument which seems to infest far too many threads.

The concern regarding OP combatants not being able to heal non-combatants, while most likely a bug, certainly doesn't guarantee a combatant will use sap to heal a non-combatant.

And as it has been stated, the best course of action for the original poster regarding this issue would have been to both report the issue as a bug, and if posting here to provide all of the details of the scenario which would have prevented much of the bickering.

I hold no malice towards PvP or PvE players, everybody has their preferred style of play. I just wish everyone could see it that way.

[blaah]

The concern regarding OP combatants not being able to heal non-combatants, while most likely a bug, certainly doesn't guarantee a combatant will use sap to heal a non-combatant.

it belongs to "oops" category and/or is intended behavior for that patch. if it really is a bug, then wth did test team do all this time ?

btw, if they only would make outpost area DEAD* for PvE when it's attack/defence rounds, there would be no problems (half hour before and after too maybe).

* wandering tribe, mobs in op area, wandering named mobs, mobs leave aggro as soon as player enters op area, forage spots.

[rothimar]

I don't imagine the test team would have had a digger hanging around the OP while testing healing combatants, and it might not have occured to them someone would end up needing a rez from a combatant.

it belongs to "oops" category and/or is intended behavior for that patch. if it really is a bug, then wth did test team do all this time ?

btw, if they only would make outpost area DEAD* for PvE when it's attack/defence rounds, there would be no problems (half hour before and after too maybe).

* wandering tribe, mobs in op area, wandering named mobs, mobs leave aggro as soon as player enters op area, forage spots.

[blaah]

I don't imagine the test team would have had a digger hanging around the OP while testing healing combatants, and it might not have occured to them someone would end up needing a rez from a combatant.

??
to test outpost healing rules, you need 1 attacker, 1 defender and one neutral.
either there was no testing team (coder just put in check to see if healer and target has same flag) or it's intended. or they didnt test if attacker/defender can heal neutral (bug was that neutral can heal attacker/defender). and this is where we get to the oops.

[rothimar]

I am certainly not stating that it isn't an "oops" scenario, but I can also understand that it might have not occured to the dev team when they were working on the exploit they were fixing that someone was going to be digging at an OP battle. It's an oversight, I'll certainly agree with that, but it's not like Nevrax was trying to screw anyone over. That seems to be the tone people have taken about the issue.

/sigh What ever happened to a simple bug report?

I'm not saying "Don't fix it!!", but rather simply pointing out that it was most likely an unintentional mistake.

??
to test outpost healing rules, you need 1 attacker, 1 defender and one neutral.
either there was no testing team (coder just put in check to see if healer and target has same flag) or it's intended. or they didnt test if attacker/defender can heal neutral (bug was that neutral can heal attacker/defender). and this is where we get to the oops.