Musicians/dancers in Ryzom?

[ashling]

Well, To give him Some support.

This community seems to be unsupportive of any and all ideas posed by its members by the "Elders" of the community.

Read any thread about a suggested change or addition. For some reason, the "Elders" here do not want to see any suggestions made, and seem to treat any suggestion as detrimental to the game and wont even suffer them to be discussed, and definitely do not wish to see the game change.

This is the feeling one gets when posting his/her idea here.

I think to many of them think that any suggestion , because it is based on another game (and that’s going to happen) would just be a copy and paste by the development team and therefore suffer the same perceived flaws of the system it came from, ignoring the fact that these developers do not make half assed changes and would not allow anything into the game that they did not develop and make fit in the game as far as setting and mechanics.

And that it is the developments team and wisdom that sets the schedule of things to be worked on not necessarily the players, no matter how good the suggestion... So attempting to "Think about scheduling and resources" for new ideas is moot for players to even ponder, and should not be a consern for posters...or even thoes using it as an excuse to shun or stop discussion of ideas.

And as a side note, like i have said before, there is nothing in ryzom that is new or unique (debatable about the Actions building), what make rezom unique is the polish and assimilation of the parts that they have made their own and the treatment they have given them for this setting and game. It is the sum of those differences that make ryzom unique.

That's a more general complaint and Beerys decission that the community is bad seems based purely on this thread. This thread started very supportive with sujestions on how he might get something approaching his playstyle from the game and a general agreeing that entertainer content would be nice.

Even generaly the sujestion threads that I've seen are useally supportive apart from one or two posters. Although I'll happily admit I don't watch the forums that much so a few could have sliped past me where it was different.

What I have seen that might not be seen as supportive is people saying the sujestion wouldn't be top of their list or that they'd prefer something else get worked on. Not their decission to make of course but their right to voice which they'd prefer as long as it doesn't decend into flames, espically when the devloper here has a much more limited budget then the big developers for other MMOs.

Just the views on this of a pretty new player

[truce1]

I support self-help firstly.

Ryzom, potentially, has a very beautiful and intricate dancing system, rich with the flavor of Atys. This "system" isn't obvious, though. It isn't pointed out clearly in a level/skill tree. It isn't possible to macro it. It does require imagination and effort on the part of one who wishes to use it. If one doesn't want to bother with imagination and effort, then...too bad.

What you describe will always happen. But some times people wish for thing such as RP tools to be supported by the games mechanics. This isn’t uncommon, nor is it totally outrageous to have or ask for.

Part of your response seems to me like some i have seen in other games...

"Because there are bugs, we role-play them to excuse them"

While not 100% the same thing, its somewhat close. But also in this statement you are basically saying that no one should suggest or complain that a feature isn’t implemented because it is "Easy" to role-play (or make excuse for it) by stringing together parts of the game to achieve some small equivalent to that missing or unsupported feature. And, if you do not basically "Hack" this together, then you have no right to complain that the "feature" doesn’t exist, when it does if you bend the systems in place to emulate the feature with a large helping of RP.

To this, I do not agree at all. There is nothing wrong with having social tools and RP tools supported by the game in witch you play. There is nothing “Pure” about keeping RP tools and social features removed from game mechanics.

I feel this is a left over mentality from MUDS and PnP games.

Things like last names, marriages, children, housing, shop owning, boat owning, object naming, customization, emotes and Textual “Talking” types (IE: Shout, yell, local, whisper) are all forums of RP and social tools that are quite common in MMO’s and this list will only get bigger.

By your logic, they should remove emotes (and never add another one) because players can quite Easley *Dances with glee at * in the chat window.

This is old, flawed logic IMO.

2c

[ashling]

Things like last names, marriages, children, housing, shop owning, boat owning, object naming, customization, emotes and Textual “Talking” types (IE: Shout, yell, local, whisper) are all forums of RP and social tools that are quite common in MMO’s and this list will only get bigger.

Last names are common in mmos, marriages slightly less but still there, housing is mostly instanced if there, and shop owning, boat owning, object names are very very rare and I've never seen children. Customization can be sadly lacking too in alot of them.

Should they be? most of them should be in MMOs yep (I'd take convincing on children). Would more of them in Ryzom be nice? yep as long as integrated properly (I'm mostly thinking of non instanced player housing here as potentialy causing trouble if added to the current world). More customisation is always a good thing in my opinion but we're moving a fair bit off topic so I'll leave it there

[truce1]

Last names are common in mmos, marriages slightly less but still there, housing is mostly instanced if there, and shop owning, boat owning, object names are very very rare and I've never seen children. Customization can be sadly lacking too in alot of them.

Should they be? most of them should be in MMOs yep (I'd take convincing on children). Would more of them in Ryzom be nice? yep as long as integrated properly (I'm mostly thinking of non instanced player housing here as potentialy causing trouble if added to the current world). More customisation is always a good thing in my opinion but we're moving a fair bit off topic so I'll leave it there

Not as "Very very rare" as you think.

Housing = all most all western MMO's second gen +. Instanced or not.

Shop owning = Other games have supported it in the past, SWG did it best, but EQ, EQ2, SWG, Vanguard...etc..

Ships = UO, And now Vanguard.

Marriage = Some games that have mechanics to support it SWG, Second life, There, Vanguard, AC, AC2 ,quite a few others i cant think of at work ATM..

Children = this is usually a sub-support of last names.. Since last names are not tied to accounts or /Tells a few games allow the editing of the last name, hence the children. There are a few that also allow for a hierarchy of family’s, Father, mother son ETC.. (was not meaning Child avatars)

Object names = are older than you think, While the Gamey games don’t support it, most Worlds do. = SL, There, SWG, UO, Few others..

[ashling]

Not as "Very very rare" as you think.

Housing = all most all western MMO's second gen +. Instanced or not.

Shop owning = Other games have supported it in the past, SWG did it best, but EQ, EQ2, SWG, Vanguard...etc..

Ships = UO, And now Vanguard.

Marriage = Some games that have mechanics to support it SWG, Second life, There, Vanguard, AC, AC2 ,quite a few others i cant think of at work ATM..

Children = this is usually a sub-support of last names.. Since last names are not tied to accounts or /Tells a few games allow the editing of the last name, hence the children. There are a few that also allow for a hierarchy of family’s, Father, mother son ETC.. (was not meaning Child avatars)

Object names = are older than you think, While the Gamey games don’t support it, most Worlds do. = SL, There, SWG, UO, Few others..

Well I didn't call them all very very rare (marriage and housing for example I agreed are more common)

but

shop owning: Out of your list I'd agree on SWG2, EQ2 for instanced but EQ1 no (you could set yourself up as a shop when not online in a specific zone, thats not owning a shop imo though). Vanguard isn't released and there are more that don't have them (FFXI, CoH/V, WoW, DAoC, DDO, GW, AutoAssault, EQ1 to name a few and alot more in development that don't too unfortunitly)

ships: one released game, one game in development. That out of all the MMOs out there definitly sounds like very very rare to me

object names: I can only think of SWG and UO. Second Life and There could be counted I supose, I hadn't been as I see them as more graphical chat rooms then MMORPGs but that could just be me. That again is still not many compared to how many games don't allow it though.

Children: I'm not sure what you mean now. Taking the same surname and roleplaying the child of another character? If that counts then yes it is much more common (as common as surnames!). If you mean a more involved in game supported system then I can't think of one game with them ... certainly doesn't mean there isn't one but I think very very rare would be a fair desciption?

BTW I'm not againts any of these things (excpet maybe children where I'm just confused now ) and yes they are less common in the gamey games but unfortunitly that is the majority of MMORPGs. I belive most of them can add a huge amount to games and I'd be very happy with decorating and being able to set your house up as a shop to be added as well as marriage, surnames, and object naming for furniture as well as a music system that let you learn styles of songs from the four races. Ships I'd pass on in Ryzom

[rothimar]

Housing - Ryzom has housing. It's on of the features that needs to be fleshed out before we get dancing skills.

Shop Owning - EQ2 doesn't have player owned shops. You can sell from your apartment's inventory. Of course, EQ2 also has one of the most unstable markets I have seen in a game. Ryzom allows you to sell your items to players as well. You get your money up front for the base "NPC value" and if it sells, receive the difference later. Much better than EQ2's system.

Ships - There isn't really a need for ships on Atys from what I have seen. Might be a nice little toy to have in the Lakes region, but other than that...

Marriage - I have seen it in other games, and I don't know anyone who used the feature. Not saying people don't, but it isn't a "make it or break it" feature in my opinion.

Children - As long as it isn't child avatars... *shudder*

Object Names - Where would this apply in Ryzom that wouldn't put an unnecessary load on the servers? You mention SL, but neglected to mention the horrid problems they have with server stability due to the extreme load caused by things like dynamic object names.

I think it's time I pull a line from my sig...

This is Ryzom, not some other game. It has its own features, its own direction, and it's great because it's different.

Not as "Very very rare" as you think.

Housing = all most all western MMO's second gen +. Instanced or not.

Shop owning = Other games have supported it in the past, SWG did it best, but EQ, EQ2, SWG, Vanguard...etc..

Ships = UO, And now Vanguard.

Marriage = Some games that have mechanics to support it SWG, Second life, There, Vanguard, AC, AC2 ,quite a few others i cant think of at work ATM..

Children = this is usually a sub-support of last names.. Since last names are not tied to accounts or /Tells a few games allow the editing of the last name, hence the children. There are a few that also allow for a hierarchy of family’s, Father, mother son ETC.. (was not meaning Child avatars)

Object names = are older than you think, While the Gamey games don’t support it, most Worlds do. = SL, There, SWG, UO, Few others..

[rushin]

why do i read these threads?

because you're a masochist rushin

oh yeah o.o

anyways, it's amusing that you decide the community is unhelpful and elitist because we dont all pat you on the back and demand dancing or threaten to quit, umm sorry but you need to stop being so ridiculous.

you'd probably find that most of us would welcome dancing in Ryzom, it would be great imo, lots of fun. But you are lacking perspective about the game in general and the dev time available. Nevrax are a small independent studio, they dont have 200 people working on the game and as such their time is limited.

Almost all of that time is atm taken up with the Ring, which is nearing release, i imagine when it does there wont be much time even then as patches and tweaking will be required but we shall see.

The simple fact is there are many, many things that need looking into, it's tedious to list, there are other posts that do; try the huge what bugs you the most thread for examples. A lot of these are gameplay affecting issues, they are more important than adding an ability to dance. really.

You my friend are suffering from the all too common affliction of coming from another game and missing its features. it's understandable, and to an extent i sympathise, i am in a guild of mostly ex-SWG players so i have some idea of the pain and hurt they have suffered having to find a new place to call home. I see many come and play for a few weeks or months and leave because they can't accept they are playing a different game. you have to play with what you have, not what has been lost.

You arent looking at the big picture, and it's a shame you seem to think everyone is out to flame or just plain ignore your wishes, but try to look at the other side of the coin.

[totnkopf]

You arent looking at the big picture, and it's a shame you seem to think everyone is out to flame or just plain ignore your wishes, but try to look at the other side of the coin.

QFE

I also had a good chuckle at the fact that you thought these forums were unhelpful when the SWG ones are a million times worse and full of 1337 kids. There are 10 pages here of how to do dancing and suggestions on getting what you wanted from the game. Instead, you took them all as flames because we didn't immediatley jump to your side. As was said before, dacing has been suggested numerous times in the past (in other words, you're not the first to suggest it). It has yet to be implemented as other more pressing needs are being met (things that affect the daily gameplay of paying customers). Anyway, you've admitted to not playing the game nor paying a sub, so this will be my last post here. No point in arguing with someone whos not even interested in the game. Have fun in SWG

[totnkopf]

Housing = all most all western MMO's second gen +. Instanced or not.
we have it. It is istanced. you just can't have others in it with you.

Shop owning = Other games have supported it in the past, SWG did it best, but EQ, EQ2, SWG, Vanguard...etc..
I'd love to see the silkroad style stores, but its not a pressing issue since we have merchants that are organized by the quality of the item (for q250 you have to go to Dyron, for q200 you can go to Thesos or Dyron, etc). A shop would limit us to just that little area and would probaly end up cramping the TPs (imagine yrk....)

Ships = UO, And now Vanguard.
Why? We can TP or Swim? it'd be a nice little feature, but only once everything else is smoothed out should we be adding a few rudundancies.

Marriage = Some games that have mechanics to support it SWG, Second life, There, Vanguard, AC, AC2 ,quite a few others i cant think of at work ATM..
What would be the benefit of it? We have marriage in Ryzom (check the saga thread) where the CSR will help out. Its an RP thing only, but then again, I'd assume it is in other games.

Children = this is usually a sub-support of last names.. Since last names are not tied to accounts or /Tells a few games allow the editing of the last name, hence the children. There are a few that also allow for a hierarchy of family’s, Father, mother son ETC.. (was not meaning Child avatars)
sure, this would be a fun one. but once again, we'd have to have a steady base to build new features on. The game has too many unfinished aspects to it before we can begin to add new things to it. Last thing we want is new bugs to go with the old.

Object names = are older than you think, While the Gamey games don’t support it, most Worlds do. = SL, There, SWG, UO, Few others.
Benn suggested many times in the past. Still want to make my "Supreme Brown and sounds like a bell Resin Armor"

[truce1]

Housing - Ryzom has housing. It's on of the features that needs to be fleshed out before we get dancing skills.

Shop Owning - EQ2 doesn't have player owned shops. You can sell from your apartment's inventory. Of course, EQ2 also has one of the most unstable markets I have seen in a game. Ryzom allows you to sell your items to players as well. You get your money up front for the base "NPC value" and if it sells, receive the difference later. Much better than EQ2's system.

Ships - There isn't really a need for ships on Atys from what I have seen. Might be a nice little toy to have in the Lakes region, but other than that...

Marriage - I have seen it in other games, and I don't know anyone who used the feature. Not saying people don't, but it isn't a "make it or break it" feature in my opinion.

Children - As long as it isn't child avatars... *shudder*

Object Names - Where would this apply in Ryzom that wouldn't put an unnecessary load on the servers? You mention SL, but neglected to mention the horrid problems they have with server stability due to the extreme load caused by things like dynamic object names.

I think it's time I pull a line from my sig...

This is Ryzom, not some other game. It has its own features, its own direction, and it's great because it's different.

I wasn’t stating that they needed to be added to ryzom, I was just proving a point that things of this nature are becoming more of a "Need" than a "want" in mmo's.

As far as your last statement, please read my other post.