They pretend to give us life, but we are now thier slaves.

[mrshad]

Has is occurred to any of you that the “mercy” we are being granted from the higher powers is a subtle form of slavery?

Oh, on the face of it, it is no big deal, Ma-Duk promises to restore a homin to life if the homin is slain. Jena promises the same to her faithful. In exchange, we pay back a death penalty, and Atys keeps moving.

But consider…what if the Powers threatened to stop bringing us back unless we were truly devoted. What if we had to prove our allegiance over and over in order to rely on the gift of everlasting life? Would we comply? Would we take up the banner for our chosen god in order to secure the so-called blessing of immortality? For some, it is a moot point, they are dedicated to their path, and would breathlessly answer a divine call, whether or not a reward was promised. But there are others who are trying, desperately; and perhaps hopelessly, to follow a path of neutrality, only taking from the powers what they freely offer without compromise. What would they do if the promise of rebirth were held contingent on oaths of fealty?

And let us examine if this endless existence is really a blessing at all. Do we take any great care as we wander through the wild places of Atys? Or have we become accustom to taking great risk, knowing that there is very little pain in failure? That the reward is so great, and the risk is so small has helped many homin to achieve great power. We suffer, bleed and die; only to be brought back again and again, training the perfect soldier in a war between gods.

Those that learn to harness magic find that to cast the most powerful spells requires immense sacrifice. Sap and blood literally seeps from our skin, pushing painfully through each pour. We grow weaker with each spell, needing to rely on other magic users in order to replenish our bodies; causing those casters the same suffering, time after time after time.

Those that push blades are not spared. In order to defeat the great creatures of Atys, our warriors learn ways to push their bodies beyond normal limits, causing themselves wounds while inflicting them on others. Taking the flesh to the point of exhaustion, and on top of it all, suffering the attacks of their opponents.

It is clear: we lead violent lives of pain and sorrow. We are “spared” death only because the great powers of Atys wish to use us for their own end. Were it not for them, a homin would be responsible for his own life and live it simply. We would hunt from the bounty of Atys, learn to harvest only what we need; and not attempt to rend body and soul to summon fire and lightning from nothing. Or strain muscle and sinew to sever the flesh of a creature we could never eat.

Keep in mind the next time you are called back form your eternal rest; you do not owe Jena or Ma-Duk a thing for their “service.” It amuses them to watch you suffer even as you train for their war. And when they need leverage to compel you to comply with a command that you would usually ignore, they will use your addiction to immortality against you.

[danolt]

Those are some serious and very well thought out arguments and ones I have spent some time contemplating. It helps kill time while swinging a pick or pulling a needle. It is hard to accept that beings would be willing to aid without benefiting themselves. It is not something I can do. I have a sense of self and as such am selfish. I do think there are times I have given freely, with no exception for any return, but it is impossible to even consider to give without expectation all of the time.

While your arguments are sound, they fail to take in to account the actions and words of either God. Ma-Duk, the Genitor is one with the Kami, they are a part of him. His love for them is based on selfishness. They are one in the same. He desires to transform all Homins into Kami and make all of Atys one divine consciousness. By returning Homins to life he continues towards his goal of universal conscious solidarity.

Jena, the creator, our Mother, Her reasons I do not comprehend. It is her unconditional love that brings us back. That is something I can not explain. I can not prove that the Karavan are not feeding off our death. I can not even ask you to accept it as a matter of faith since my own faith is not even strong enough to remove my own daily doubts. I am still a follower of Jena and I try to meet her half way. The only thing I can offer, is it would seem to me that there would be easier ways to siphon off Homin life energy. (There is something that is absorbing energy from Homins how else would there be degenerative races)

I am not sure why you think either God finds our suffering amusing. I also think your leap of faith that Homins would live simple lives without the power of resurrection completely ignores our history.

I thank you for offering your opinion, it helps to clarify my own.

It is my belief that each God will always give freely regardless of faction. It is what they hope we do with that gift that separates them.

Pero

[tylarth]

Then if you find you are ever without such support, and live. You will have to adapt to you new existance as one of the denied. and hope, for prayer is not an option, that the kitin do not rise again, for your existance and dreams will be fragile and in the hands of the followers.

But so long as 2 powers vie for their vision of Atys and the kitin remain a threat, we are no slaves, quite the reverse, we are the ones who will shape Atys to our desire, our support of either faction will dictate the future. The powers are literally powerless without homins.

[mrshad]

The Kitin, at least, are an honest foe.

They kill simply to protect thier territory or find food.

They do not string us along through a vale of misery and tears. Sending us back, time and time again, even when we fervently wish for death. That final peace which will forever be denied us. No, the powers are too amused by us to ever simply let us die.

We are thier slaves, and the kitin are thier whip. Homins flock to our great "protectors" out of fear of another swarming. Since the swarming, have the kitin shown the kind of organizaiton required to really conquer Atys? Certainly, there have been a few, limited, poorly executed incursions that were quickly put down. But nothing to the scale that our ancestors experienced.

I submit that the kitin were, and still are, under the control of one or both of the higher powers. Just another pawn in thier endless game.

But, even if I am wrong, and it is only divine intervention keeping us from the belly of a kitin:

LET THEM COME, I say!

The most brutal death is better than the kindest slavery.

[riveit]

Where some see a vale of misery and tears, others see a garden of beauty, joy and hope. I will accept each life granted to me and live it to the fullest. Each one of us has known sorrow and pain. Each one of us has made mistakes, but each life is a fresh chance to better ourselves and fulfill our goals. So please resurrect me, until the Dragon exhales his ultimate doom upon Atys and our Lady Jena lifts us away.

[philu]

I wouldn't so much say slaves as puppets. We are puppets in their 'war'. A war that has, as yet, not seen a single Kami or Karavan fall, but HAS seen many Homins suffer to further these war mongering puppet masters' goals.

If they are so great and all powerful, why don't they fight their OWN battles and leave homins to rebuild Atys in peace? Why do they need Homins to fight for them?

I would suggest it is because NEITHER is what they claim to be, NEITHER is to be trusted. The Kami showed their true colours in the Old Lands when they advocated digging there to build their precious temples.

[mrshad]

If we are puppets, we have no will, no choice, no hope.
Even our plans for rebellion are tools of our masters.

[apella88]

It's not because we would be puppets, that we have no will, choice or hope. we had before the karavan and the kami arrived, and we will afterwards.
The can, however, change it by changing our needs. It's a slow proces, taking a few generations, but it has allready happened by now. It's to late for us to turn our back to them. Some do, but they are clearly a minority.
I do agree with Philu that they should fight their own war, but I think it's good that they stay near us tough. Their gifts, as poisoned that they might be, are still interresting offers, gladly taken by everyone, thus making them not useless or unfair against us.

[raynes]

What if? You can ask what if all you want, but without the love of the Kami, Atys would have been stripped of its resource and left for waste by the Karavan long ago.

[katriell]

What if? You can ask what if all you want, but without the love of the Kami, Atys would have been stripped of its resource and left for waste by the Karavan long ago.

Questions are vital. If we do not ask questions, we are blind as the unsuspecting yubo standing eagerly at the foot of the bored Avatar of Destruction who will imminently end its life.