High-End Melee?

[grimjim]

While I agree globally with you, I must admit I still fail to see how the ring will be different, without demanding a huge effort from devs/players. In what a player created scenario is different from an instanced scenario (call it quest if you want) and unless the player is online and acting real time, in what makes a ring scenario different and in what sense will ring scenarios not be "play once" as well?

The Ring is endless content for the creative types and allows for a speed and diversity of delivery of quest/instance content that can't be matched by the standard means.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law applies.

[velosi]

The Ring is endless content for the creative types and allows for a speed and diversity of delivery of quest/instance content that can't be matched by the standard means.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law applies.

Sturgeon's Revelation > Sturgeon's Law



V

[iphdrunk]

The Ring is endless content for the creative types and allows for a speed and diversity of delivery of quest/instance content that can't be matched by the standard means.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law applies.

Well, true, the ring is endless content for the creative types in a way that outposts is endless content for the PvP players, but as you seem to imply (unless I misunderstood, sorry):
* it's not applicable to non-creative players (but indirectly, thanks to others creations)
* you seem to agree that it's basically quest/instance driven? yet your arguments are also based on the limitations of such an approach?

And, as you state, it's strenght relies in the speed (to be seen) and diversity (let's hope so), yet quality, coherence, depth and other factors still remain unclear and, iirc remarkable scenarios will subject to observation and approval from nevrax to become official and durable. The speed only is based on the raw manpower available, thanks to players that willingly and happily give part of their time for their own and others profit and fun (something to be grateful for) and the diversity is severily limited by ring capabilities. As per Sturgeon, let's hope the 10% is worth the effort. Leaving the fact that players can and will enjoy creating, for the end users of the scenarios, its basically offloading devs work (as a creators) onto players what will "fasten" the delivery.

Abut the "unmatched" aspect. In what a powerful set of in-house tools with a team of creative developers cannot match this?
the novel aspect is it's openness to other players and allowing them to become creators themselves. But in what sense it's more flexible? unmatched? isn't that based too much on the creative capabilities of players and the subsequent inability of professional developers to match them?


While the ring is a nice addition, yet you seem to not adress the fact that in some players opinion the game could also be extended in other ways, unrelated to ring capabilities, and specially the fact that when a player raises concern in the lack of game features, the canned responses about "do other things, smell the roses, ring powah, don't grind" are not always applicable and do not hide the fact that the game lacks improvement in other areas, and these given as a means of justifying the delay of other features and stagnation are only valid in the specific Nevrax / Ryzom context.

[grimjim]

While the ring is a nice addition, yet you seem to not adress the fact that in some players opinion the game could also be extended in other ways, unrelated to ring capabilities, and specially the fact that when a player raises concern in the lack of game features, the canned responses about "do other things, smell the roses, ring powah, don't grind" are not always applicable and do not hide the fact that the game lacks improvement in other areas

Specifically in regard to 'the grind', the answer IS 'don't grind' and to get out of that pure 'achievement' mindset, because the 'content' of any game set up in that way runs out eventually.

[komissar]

Yeah I followed that advice and after more than a year of play I have not a single master lvl Booo-hoo-hoo

Still enchanted by the game tho

[iphdrunk]

Specifically in regard to 'the grind', the answer IS 'don't grind' and to get out of that pure 'achievement' mindset, because the 'content' of any game set up in that way runs out eventually.

Yet no,and no. That answer and targetting the "achievement mindset" is narrow as well. Yes, there are a lot of things to do besides the grind, specially at the beginning, but not all players are achievers and the "content wears off" is true, it is true in a wider aspect and CAN be mitigated by game extensions and the lack of alternatives and the slow pace of development DOES apply to other players as well, not necessarily "achievers".

Justifying stagnation and dismissing players requests with "forget your achievement mind set and don't grind" ? Why every time someone raises this, the answer is the same "I can be enterntained for weeks with a paper box", and not acknowledge the room for improvement?

[grimjim]

Justifying stagnation and dismissing players requests with "forget your achievement mind set and don't grind" ? Why every time someone raises this, the answer is the same "I can be enterntained for weeks with a paper box", and not acknowledge the room for improvement?

Because most often the 'solutions' quoted are sticking plasters rather than anything more long term.

[gillest]

Sarcastic Mode On

If the ring was so enormous, powerful and was giving opportunities to create stunning new instanced quests, missions....
I presume they are finalising it and i presume again that was is more difficult to code is to allow the players to have all the options to be able to create scenario....
But then: Why havent the dev created a few scenarios, blocked the editor and just throw them out to give players something else to explore/do?...

Don't get me wrong, I will be happy when I can patch my client with the ring update, but I am not a creator, i'm more explorator/exterminator: I like to visit, not to decorate

So this update may only cater for a few, the creative ones, and I am sure we have lots of them and I will enjoy visiting their creations for sure.
I will even try it myself even tho I am not very confident about the result; but who knows ...


This remind me a little bit of the PvP/OP update and Final's post summarize it perfectly:
Even if you like PvP and OP battle, how often does it occurs? once a week, every two weeks...
But, But, We are here everyday Sir, can we have a daily something that is little bit different that what we have been doing since release?

OP are great, new tools and plans are great, I hope R2 will be great as well, waiting for Kitin lair (hopefully not kitin liar ) but what everybody really needs; I mean everybody: oldtimers, neutrals, Pvpers and all who I may have forgotten is SOMETHING NEW...
Maybe a skill, maybe some news costumes as you said yourself Grim, maybe new crafting plans, new lands to explore...
Yes the grind will still be there but a new objectif is what motivate the troops; even if the process is the same, knowing that you are doing something you do for the first time is amongst the greatest motivators..

And by new I mean new and accessible to all players and all play styles.
The grind will always be there (we like it anyway, or we would not play), what we need is the pleasure of discovery.

Let me craft something new, kill something new, go to unexplored area, level a new skill, let us fight to be first to get the 250 title of a new branche ...
That's what I would call real update.

Keep the good work, finish the ring but think about something new and surprising

[final60]

merry poppins

[grimjim]

Let me craft something new, kill something new, go to unexplored area, level a new skill, let us fight to be first to get the 250 title of a new branche ...
That's what I would call real update.

Those were all great examples of what I meant by 'one time' content.
A skill tree might have some length to it, but if you're a grinder it becomes 'just' another skill to grind.

If some of these updates could be integrated with something with more longevity (like a skill tree that helped make RP props, drink or food) then there'd be more value to it.