Relaunching an Old debate: economy

[andypur1]

Obvious answer, I know you know, but setting price filter to more than 10k avoids bigger frustrations

Bah, I still reckon that this use of shops is bending the spirit of the storage issue in the game, otherwise why not just give us giant packers (like the fyros moving villages ) or large mansions instead of apartments.

Anyway, changing the filter means I need to change it back when going shopping for a weapon or armour and those extra clicks and key presses get so tiring after an hour crafting

[iphdrunk]

Bah, I still reckon that this use of shops is bending the spirit of the storage issue in the game, otherwise why not just give us giant packers (like the fyros moving villages ) or large mansions instead of apartments.

I was completely against that use, I discussed several times against it with friends that were "using it as a workaround for an unsatisfactory inventory system" until Nevrax stated it was perfectly ok to do so and not doing anything against it. Even GMs that unofficially stated that they frowned upon this were shocked about the announcement. After that *shrugs* why not, it's pretty convenient.

[rangelov]

The economy doesnt work, because it is very far from a real economy. The problem is that there is unlimited demand by NPCs that will buy anything, so getting flooded with dappers is a matter of time. On the other side there is no need to buy mats from the NPCs, as you would rather dig them in order to gain some levels (ok, there might be short term exceptions) .Unless this is changed, any measures will probably have only short term effects and would have to be often revised and rebalanced.

IMO, trade should be possible mainly between players. Then most of the grind crafts will be simply trashed, as noone will buy them - their only value is gaining experience. So, you will have to sell items that there is demand for. Something like a trade exchange would be quite useful - where you can post bids and asks (for the sake of RP, you can make regional exchanges or just a global one; there could be trade taxes/bans based on faction, etc). As you need dappers for packers, tools, outposts, etc, bartering would not be so popular (if it still is, it could be balanced by increasing some service prices or require dappers for crafting actions, say for materials used during the craft process). All this could help, it just needs some thinking from Nevrax, depends if they have the right tools in place. For example, for this to work, they need to monitor the level of money supply in the game and over time let money flow in the economy to support the growth of the economy as a whole. Easily achieved by letting NPCs have some limited demand for materials on temporary basis, so new money comes into circulation when needed. The missions that pay dappers could be used for this too. That could also help crafters that are crafting stuff that is not highly demanded (although mats are always demanded, so you can sell some mats to get dappers, if you cant sell your craft items).

Well, overall it is not easy, but I dont think it is too hard, the game already has a very good base for a great economic system, however I doubt this is among the top priorities at Nevrax right now.

[iphdrunk]

Well, overall it is not easy, but I dont think it is too hard, the game already has a very good base for a great economic system, however I doubt this is among the top priorities at Nevrax right now.

It does look like this, which is a pity. The possibilities are several, earning money which is valuable, etc. Crafting is one of the most enjoyable things for me in game, and I enjoy a lot the trade aspect, and it's now reduced to grind mats and catas, meaning other craft levels. When a player asks me for a craft, I tend to ask " do you dig?" and a lot of times I get a negative answer, so I get a deal that, according to a fair reasonable price in dappers, I see as a free craft. When the craft is mastered, that means not xp either. What should be the price for a q180 armor? prolly less that what I can get digging and selling -- from a pure capitalist perspective, other factors left -- some things in game are of the order of a few thousand dappers and others costs Milions (e.g. 100 sup zun q250 auctioned in Aniro for 75M. A single player has bid in like 7 auctions averaging 35M per bid. How much should the Samsara ask for guarding a PR digger for 4 hours, 4 mercs?)

The most fun I've had was during first open beta, crafting the "caster armor" q10- q20-q30, etc. and getting dappers! (10k-20k etc) for it... well it lasted until the "ammo crafting makes you wealthy" bug

[aardnebb]

How much should the Samsara ask for guarding a PR digger for 4 hours, 4 mercs?)

Very true, we continuously discuss this in-guild. You have any idea how long it took to get a standardised range for OP battles?

Its a pain, cos basically its gotta be enough to make what we could get digging grind mats in the equivalant time + wear and tear on Sup PVP gear + our own hassle dealing with badmouthing from various people, but low enough people are willing to pay.

Not an easy forumula, and it gets harder when you have to take into account circumstances like doing jobs for relatively new players who cant really afford full price.

So please bare with us, and rather than be offended by a price when offered, instead try a counteroffer with an explanation?

[grimjim]

Very true, we continuously discuss this in-guild. You have any idea how long it took to get a standardised range for OP battles?

Its a pain, cos basically its gotta be enough to make what we could get digging grind mats in the equivalant time + wear and tear on Sup PVP gear + our own hassle dealing with badmouthing from various people, but low enough people are willing to pay.

Not an easy forumula, and it gets harder when you have to take into account circumstances like doing jobs for relatively new players who cant really afford full price.

So please bare with us, and rather than be offended by a price when offered, instead try a counteroffer with an explanation?

Not having an OP cats are a good thing to offer, as are materials.

For the protecting harvesters thing I would think a variable cut of the digging proceeds would be fair, 5% or something (1/20 mats dug) off the top of my head.

I like dappers though, because I like to buy grind mats from the shops in order to encourage their use.

[pyrrhon]

I'd like to see gambling/gaming kiosks with prizes of xp cats, fancy (not powerful/useful) unique clothes, mektoub paint, face paint, fireworks, noise makers (consumable foghorns), and other types of eye candy that do not affect the crafter based economy. Just some fun things to do with the extra dapper.

The basic crafter/trade/social based economy is excellent I think. Except that I agree using vendors for storage has to be discouraged.

[marct]

Until a system exists whereby a crafter can make a living almost completely on buying mats and crafting things to sell, there will not be a good balance. The fact that the crafter must crafter 4 billion times the number of items he or she sells is just ridiculous. It is not "crafting" it is mass production.

The crafter is the only person on Atys at the moment that cannot survive by just crafting.

To the 500% comment, that is not sufficient. I have been selling Supreme mats on the merchants recently and a 2000-3000% markup on Q200 Supremes is still easily sellable.

With an increase in population, a lot of the problems go away. The problem with Supreme mats does not exist with 4 or 5 times the people around. More people = more demand for gear, etc. Right now, the druability is too high on any item for this size population, and the crafters existence.

[/Ramble over]

[grimjim]

It would be nice if you could sell a crafted item for even a touch more than the 100% sale price of the mats that make it up.

[raisrev1]

To the 500% comment, that is not sufficient. I have been selling Supreme mats on the merchants recently and a 2000-3000% markup on Q200 Supremes is still easily sellable.

Hehe that would prolly be me buying them btw 20k a mat on Forest Supreme I dont mind paying atm, depending on the kind of mat.

*back on topic*

I see lots of good ideas posted here, and Yeh I agree there needs to be something done to the economy, thou prolly not imediatly.