Open question RE FvF

[rushin]

To say "I know nothing about this issue" is an understatement. But that's never stopped me before! So FWIW, based solely on what I've read in this conversation, take it or leave it...

Unlike true war, you cannot truly cease functioning forever on Atys. Therefore, unlike true war where the concept of attrition is defined by ending enough lives to reduce/eliminate opposition, in a game like this, the goal of reducing/eliminating opposition is accomplished by putting your enemy in a position where they no longer wish to participate.

The reduction of Kami participation and OP's is indication that the Kara are "winning". Who wants to fight a war that can never be won or lost? That type of situation would be akin to the instanced PvP BG's of WoW. While it might be an enjoyable experience for an individual to participate for a period of time, it ultimately serves no larger purpose within the game context.

It seems as though few things are put into this game as self-perpetuating entertainment systems, and that most of the elements are not simply plot devices but established for a purpose within the larger context of the story. If that's truly the case, then I'd suspect that this is a "war" which someone is meant to win or lose. Otherwise, the implication is that its created to be mainly an amusing time-killer.

And so if the OP struggle between Kami and Kara is indeed a function of a larger plot line, as has been suggested, then artificial balancers may be contradictory. Balancing mechanics maintain the viability of an existing system, and keep things relatively static...but "static" is diametrically opposed to "dynamic", and it seems that Atys is a world meant to be the latter and not the former. By keeping things 'balanced', it might prevent the actual evolution of the storyline.

Also, mechanics which might re-balance or reset the system indefinitely is counterproductive to a sense that your character's actions are having impact on the environment. If the scale more or less always gets reset to zero, then the weight of your actions ultimately equal zero as well.

At any rate, as I said I may be completely talking out of my own you-know-what. If I am, then please forgive me and just ignore this post.

meh. I'd typed loads of stuff about balancing, read this, deleted it all. good post

[grimjim]

meh. I'd typed loads of stuff about balancing, read this, deleted it all. good post

Balancing doesn't mean victory can't be acheived, but it does mean it would depend more on merit.

[art3an]

... At any rate, as I said I may be completely talking out of my own you-know-what. If I am, then please forgive me and just ignore this post.

No, not at all. You are right on spot on what most people in this dicussion seem to have missed: the purpose of the OP's. And I agree wholeheartedly with your point.

If the OP's are indeed implemented as a storyline element of the larger plot; I can see no need for a balancing mechanism.

However, I suspect that is not the case. Lately, Nevrax has argued that both OP's and Spires are part of the Ryzom 'end game'; i.e. features that are here to stay. Even in that case though, an ill thought through balancing system might do more bad than good.

And please Kamis', remember that the situation is far from dejected. You still have a vast opportunity to turn this tide. It will however involve some socialising, diplomacy, recruting etc.

[901941]

And please Kamis', remember that the situation is far from dejected. You still have a vast opportunity to turn this tide. It will however involve some socialising, diplomacy, recruting etc.

My thoughts exactly.

[philu]

Well having admittedly only skim read this thread, I have to say this is one of those (fairly) rare occasions when I don't agree with Jyudas.

I think any kind of 'balancing' would be a bad thing. As has been said, it would take away from the 'dynamic' impact that we as players are supposed to have on the story line.

If either side 'win' this war (if it EVER gets going properly!), then so be it. If Nevrax do truly have a plan, then they will have accounted for one side or the other winning and know where the story goes from there. Personally, I'd like to actually see the story move along a little bit quicker.

If we must have a war, let's see it happen. Let's see the Kami and the Karavan actually fighting, instead of using us as their pawns.

Isn't it about time Jena appeared?

[jamela]

Isn't it about time Jena appeared?

Missing, presumed lost, last seen trying to recruit help.
Perhaps the authorities caught wind of the slanderous rumours of warmongering put about by Elias, and the heavenly lady is now detained and forced to wear a horrible bright orange suit.

[aardnebb]

I would like to point out that "balancing" is only an issue if this is intended to be a static part of the world. If Outposts are to be removed apon completion of their purpose then fine, the results are as intended.

Otherwise its just an ongoing unbalance in the playability of a Faction. The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

Thats why this is a question rather than a suggestion. Interesting responses though, thanks all. Would love to hear an "official" response though!

[philu]

If Outposts are to be removed apon completion of their purpose

I'd be very surprised to see that happen, Nevrax put a lot of work into creating them. Seems a bit daft to me to then remove them again later. Only time will tell I guess, games like this change and evolve so you never know.

[art3an]

I'd be very surprised to see that happen, Nevrax put a lot of work into creating them. Seems a bit daft to me to then remove them again later. Only time will tell I guess, games like this change and evolve so you never know.

Agree, that would be very surprising if they were removed.

We might, however, hope for a future change of the rule set governing the OP's, to something involving a 'tad' more diplomacy and a slightly more peacefull approach perhaps? All along the changes of the Saga ofc.

[akede]

Agree, that would be very surprising if they were removed.

We might, however, hope for a future change of the rule set governing the OP's, to something involving a 'tad' more diplomacy and a slightly more peacefull approach perhaps? All along the changes of the Saga ofc.

This got me thinking....in a high pitched voice "run away! run away!".

What if there was a detente? If the OPs were to go away there would be no more output from them. But if as the result of some negotiation process all of the OPs followed this "community OP" idea I've seen on the boards. Now that would be a community based game alteration.

I'm not supporting this idea, mind you, as I like the conflict born from the OPs; but I thought it was an interesting curve ball.