PVP how good it is in sor?

[grimjim]

I agree here. Jim, I´m not into PvP aswell, But I can and do accept it as part of the game that we play. If my charakter get´s ganked, or killled, or whatever you may call it, I say "**** happens" and that´s it.
If I you play "Iudo" or Chess, or chekkers, or whatever (Hope I got the right translation), you agree that other palyers can and WILL kick your pawn from the board, where´s the problem with that? It´s a friggin Game.

Now imagine you're playing chess and, halfway through the game, someone introduces a new rule that they're allowed to slap you every time they take one of your pieces, but you're not allowed to do it back, plus you're only allowed to move all your pieces like pawns.

If you start playing chess, or ludo, you're agreeing to the rules of that game - you know how it will play, you know it's about a winner and a loser. Those are the groundrules and they don't change.

You don't get attached to your chess pieces (unless you're a little peculiar). The King doesn't have a story attached to him, he isn't the second son, his older brother having died of pneumonia when he was young. His wife the queen isn't having an affair with the bishop and the bishop isn't spreading rumours amongst the pawns that the older brother actually died due to evil magic cast by the king, trying to usurp him.

RPGs aren't like chess, or ludo, or monopoly, or trivial pursuit, or settlers of catan, or magic the gathering, or draughts, or backgammon, or cricket, or football, or baseball or... you get the picture.

Man, as much as I admire your sometimes good Ideas for SoR and your sometimes valuable criticism, sometimes you realy overdo it.

I managed to get my point across to even a few diehards during episode 2. So long as an opinion on it is asked for, I'll offer it, so long as the same tired stuff keeps coming up I'll counter it.

Just let them play the way they like. Accept that there are some people who realy like PvP and enjoy playing it the way it is. And some who sadly enjoy ganking poeple, but that´s their problem. If you don´t get worked up about it everytime they´ll maybe leave you be someday. Just like back on the schoolyard

Just like back in the schoolyard you stood up against it or you got trampled, sure it made you more of a target, but it was worth it and spared some of the other kids and eventually something got done.

Just let ME play the way I like. Accept that there are some people who really don't like PvP and like to play the way they like. Some people, sadly, don't enjoy being ganked and that's there problem... see, you can turn all that right back around the other way!

I don't mind them playing the way they like, minus the ganking, I just don't think those who don't want to participate in that should be cut off from anything.

Just accept that in games liek this, you´re aplayer as any other. Not someone who has anything to say about how the game should work, or not work. You are a player, just as we all are.

And we should have that say. Players are the most important part of any game.

Sorry, for getting so worked up about this but, Man, don´t you see that you´re back on your old course again? And most of us know where that brought you.

And pretty much everyone agreed it was unfair and unwarrented.
I got 'whacked' for stating the bleedin' obvious.
I continued to monitor the forums and saw far worse said and done before and after I got 'hoofed' and nothing done about it.
I still see a lot of hostility and trolling and it isn't from me, do I see anything done about it? No.
I got my apology and my reinstatement, I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else and - most of the time - I can express it more eloquently than something insulting and a 'lol'.

I agree that there should have been other means to accuire OP´s and Sub Mats, and better means for "Faction choosing": But hot damn, THEY KNOW!!! It´s of no use repeating everything over and over again. It just let´s you "troll"... *grumbles*

That's not trolling.
At a STRRRREEEEEEEETTTTCCCCCHHHH it might be considered spamming. However we have been supposed to have been having better communication for some time now, Q&A sessions, forum feedback, we got a little more lately but there had been a dry spell.

What do we actually know is coming now?

New Newbie Island - We don't know a lot about this, maybe it'll help retain some more new players but not if we can't get 'em here in the first place.

R2 - a bit more restricted than some of us hd hoped - you included - but still very interesting and promising and could bring a lot of the old crowd back.

Spires - Yet more PvP content (though I think I'll be pointing and laughing as the factions get restricted teleports like we Neutrals have had to put up with).

Blank?

[iphdrunk]

From reading your argument over and over ...

Just a thought:

Yes, PvP is in the game, yes some PR zones are PvP, which means that the game system recognizes and allows aggressive actions against other entities controlled by human players. I enjoy PvP from time to time and I personally won't get mad if killed in a PvP zone, BUT

Appealing to the player that is behind the computer, given the praise this community has received in the past.... how hard is to PvP *players* to ignore a player who has publically stated that he does not want to PvP?, regardless of the gmae mechanics? simply as that

I'll give you that, it's a PvP zone, by entering you admit the fact that you can get attacked. etc. Now, if I was a PvPer -- I could be -- attacked another player and the player politely and OOC requested me to ignore him, as a player, myself, I would. To me it's just a matter of maturity. The same way I don't go killing all the mobs given it's a PvE environment. In other words, OOC, I would grant their request, regardless of game mechanics, zones or whatever. Otherwise I am aware I'm acting against a player's will and causing him inconvenience. To me, consensual PvP goes farther than a particular region or game mechanic, it's simple as that.

Unless, of course, the community is overrated and it's everyone on his own.

[grimjim]

You are unhappy that of late the new game content has all been pvp related and only accesible through pvp, and this you understandably do not like.

Thanks for actually making a reasonable reply Run. All I want to do is discuss this rationally and get my point across to you. That's all I've ever wanted.

You argue that the non pvpers are not being well catered for or rewarded for their continued support by nevrax, as the pvp crowd have their ways of gaining access to the latest content but you do not. Fair enough. That is clearly the case.

You also have to put this situation into context. The initial advertising for the game, the original manual, the original lore (has anyone else noticed how it's been changed here and there?) and the way most of us played at the start, not to mention that it was the PvE crowd and the RPers who, IMNSHO kept this game alive pretty much for it's first year with their enthusiasm, player events and RP.

It would appear to me therefore that your argument is with nevrax, and not the pvpers.

Partially, but I'd also argue for some personal responsibility from the PvPers.

The way the pvp crowd gains access to the new content is via pvp. That system IS in place, and the pvpers ARE catered for, were perfectly happy and accomodated.

Bully for you.

Arguing that 'on occasions' we should not pvp in the pvp zones - because of the people who dont like pvp - is somewhat ridiculous. Fair play, you cant get to the new content any other way. But im afraid that is not our doing - thats game mechanics.

OK, here's where we differ.
Just because the game mechanics/rules allow for something doesn't mean it's necessarily right, or a good idea, or that you should do it. We're gifted with our own brains and a sense of right and wrong. You have rights, and you have responsibilities.

I take it you're having a good time overall in this game and you'd like it to continue so you can keep playing. I don't think it is deniable that the PvP emphasis has driven a hell of a lot of people away from the game, perhaps not quite as bad as Patch 1, but IMO the overall effect has been more because so many of those people that left from the PvP pressure were fairly key to the community. It also seems to me that a lot of the PvP people, while they like the PvP, don't find it particularly satisfying - at least judging by some of the comments here.

So, given that it has such a negative impact, why act in such a way as to make that worse?

Why is it that we can't all come to a 'gentleman's agreement' (there will always be people that break it) for the PvPers to keep their PvPing amongst themselves, even though the mechanics allow them, on occasion, to gank.

The mechanics allowed for spawn kills even though pretty much everyone agreed they were a bad idea and the guides started enforcing against it.

The mechanics allowed us to (expensively) block outpost attacks for some time - that was deemed unacceptable and, if memory serves, you were one of the critics.

Does that help illustrate why just because you can do something, maybe you shouldn't?

Game mechanics may allow you to do these things that I consider antisocial and counterproductive, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

Is that any clearer?

So it looks to me as if youre saying im not accomodated for and the pvpers are. So youre going to take part in something you dont enjoy, to gain access to the content that you do deserve access to, but in the process, as youre not enjoying myself, youre going to be decidedly unpleasant, thus completely ruining the game experience of those people who ARE there because they DO enjoy it.

Unless someone starts in on me my commentary during outpost battles is generally In Character, not Out of Character. Not that I say much these days during them since it generally only attracts OOC nastiness.

Don't think it's just about me though, I have an exaggerated sense of fairness and doublestandards and injustice make me exceedingly angry. If I'd had the luck to be trained as a ninja I'd be batman

During the Temple Battles I tried to explain to many people why and how they should maybe be considerate of others during those events. Some I got through to, some just swore and effed and blinded at me even when I was just trying to explain and be reasonable. After a while you lose your patience at trying to be rational and you snap back. I'm only human.

A lot of people actually got it.

A few didn't.

Can you explain to me why you feel that just because you CAN do something, you necessarily have to, and why leaving the people that really don't like PvP alone is not acceptable? There's plenty of people that don't have a problem with it to fight, so you wouldn't actually be losing out on anything.

[grimjim]

Appealing to the player that is behind the computer, given the praise this community has received in the past.... how hard is to PvP *players* to ignore a player who has publically stated that he does not want to PvP?, regardless of the gmae mechanics? simply as that

Quoted For Truth

[acridiel]

And even I agree with that.

Acridiel

[sprite]

Appealing to the player that is behind the computer, given the praise this community has received in the past.... how hard is to PvP *players* to ignore a player who has publically stated that he does not want to PvP?, regardless of the gmae mechanics? simply as that

Indeed.
The problems occur when people say that they absolutely dispise PvP and don't want to take part, but yet seem to do so at every possible opportunity.

In this situation, they are (to borrow from a certain other poster) "eating a s*** sandwich just to get at the bread". This unfortunately opens themselves up for a rather large amount of "s***" because they will inevitably complain about it at some point, or make enemies in the PvP situation. Once this occurs, "a PvPer" is highly likely to target them preferentially in another PvP situation, completing the circle of repercussion.

[seriel]

You guys do realize that every single argument of PvE players not being catered to is pretty much null and void as soon as you go "oh yeah, R2 is coming out before Spires"... right?

WTF more could you ask for as a PvE player than THE ABILITY TO CREATE ANY AND ALL THE CONTENT YOU WANT.

Seriously. If R2 isn't catering to PvE players over PvP players nothing will. Last I recall, you could design capture the princess - not capture the flag.

So stop bickering about PvE players being treated unfairly and PvP players getting all the love and being the evil people. You're getting what you want on the same scale of goodness that faction vs faction and group vs group PvP offers. If you all want to be so upset because "oh noes, I don't get to use XP crystals unless I PvP or buy them off someone who does!" then maybe this isn't the game for you. Go play something like WoW or EQ2 or DDO where it's an item based economy.

[lienem]

You guys do realize that every single argument of PvE players not being catered to is pretty much null and void as soon as you go "oh yeah, R2 is coming out before Spires"... right?

WTF more could you ask for as a PvE player than THE ABILITY TO CREATE ANY AND ALL THE CONTENT YOU WANT.

Seriously. If R2 isn't catering to PvE players over PvP players nothing will. Last I recall, you could design capture the princess - not capture the flag.

So stop bickering about PvE players being treated unfairly and PvP players getting all the love and being the evil people. You're getting what you want on the same scale of goodness that faction vs faction and group vs group PvP offers. If you all want to be so upset because "oh noes, I don't get to use XP crystals unless I PvP or buy them off someone who does!" then maybe this isn't the game for you. Go play something like WoW or EQ2 or DDO where it's an item based economy.

First of all, and I mean this in a good way, please calm down. Unless you've read all the posts on all the forums that have ever been written, how can you judge people so fast. I'm not talking about an elitist view that would bring you to bow to the "forum posting gods" or anything in the type, but it's pretty hard to judge something that you don't know.

Ryzom came in a box with promises on it, and promises weren't fullfilled. Some people came to play it because those promises didn't exist, while others waited around to see if they would get everything on the box. Everybody has been hailing the community for its worth, well part of the worth was because there was nothing to "fight" over to the death.

As for R2, I'd like to point out, if I may, that all PvE people are not necessarily dungeon masters at heart. I for one have no interest in creating my own map, yet I would consider myself as a PvE player. Sure, you could say that other will create maps for me, but that's not really the point is it ?

R2 will create areas for PvE, fine. If I'm not mistaken you can't take anything out of them. So tell me, where will I get my supreme mats or my catalyzers or my outpost materials in R2 ? (Note: any player in game will tell you that I don't use or require them, but that's another story. I fully understand someone being reluctant to log in a game that all of a sudden changed over night.) So if a PvE'er is an achiever and would like to make the best gear he can, well R2 won't give him any of this.


PS: You are judging a game by what you know, and I'm glad it suits you. It's a bit unfair to tell older players that the dreams they have are null and void.

[grimjim]

You guys do realize that every single argument of PvE players not being catered to is pretty much null and void as soon as you go "oh yeah, R2 is coming out before Spires"... right?

No, because everything up to this point has been PvP

WTF more could you ask for as a PvE player than THE ABILITY TO CREATE ANY AND ALL THE CONTENT YOU WANT.

If you're following the thread then you'll note it's not quite as fully featured as anticipated.

Seriously. If R2 isn't catering to PvE players over PvP players nothing will. Last I recall, you could design capture the princess - not capture the flag.

IIRC PvP functionality will be part of it, so some may end using it for battlegrounds etc.

So stop bickering about PvE players being treated unfairly and PvP players getting all the love and being the evil people. You're getting what you want on the same scale of goodness that faction vs faction and group vs group PvP offers. If you all want to be so upset because "oh noes, I don't get to use XP crystals unless I PvP or buy them off someone who does!" then maybe this isn't the game for you. Go play something like WoW or EQ2 or DDO where it's an item based economy.

I think you also have to consider the R2 won't be (as far as we know) providing alternate reward routes for the content that remains blocked by PvP and, so far as we know, also does have PvP content and implications.

Also, it's not the 'real world' or the 'real storyline'.

[vguerin]

Can you explain to me why you feel that just because you CAN do something, you necessarily have to, and why leaving the people that really don't like PvP alone is not acceptable? There's plenty of people that don't have a problem with it to fight, so you wouldn't actually be losing out on anything.

Jyudas, are you speaking "for the people" and not yourself or Samsara ?

I keep hearing that you (others in Samsara say the same as well as act different IG than in posting) are a non-PvPer and/or neutral, but see you at every attack against certain Karavan alliance outposts which I attend to defend. You can sit in the forums all day and preach about how this game is not chess, checkers etc., but your actions in this game make your stance hypocritical. Short of not doing what you proclaim, you cannot help that others will also use analogies to compare things to relate to IG mechanics.

You ARE a PvPer and YOU attack folks... Maybe you do not "gank" (a term you toss around to mean PvP), but being a PvPer you cannot fault other PvPers from doing what you do when it's convenient to you. The same way you (try to) justify yourself as a mercenary (whether you got paid or benefit other ways from helping others), others can justify their actions (they may be RPing an outlaw/bandit/rogue). Because their method of play and/or RP does not fit yours, does not make theirs any less a needed role to play.

I will be the first one to say that folks should be able to play the way they choose, you have chosen to be a PvPer... Why do you keep coming here and trying to convince anyone otherwise ?

[edit to respond to forum topic]PvP in SoR has much room for improvement. As hard as a classless system may be to balance, this one has very litle ecnalab ! [/edit]