Culture clash

[myseren]

well said kindle

[jamela]

I think you describe the situation very well, Kindle. I eventually came to a similar understanding only a couple weeks or so ago, probably about the same time as Samsara did. Realising that outposts are really nothing but PvP, and that they and faction really don't offer anything that either Jamela or Jamie wants eased quite a lot of stress, personally. And then my King went and said that he really doesn't give a damn about outposts either, so that put Jamela completely off the hook

Coexisting is going to be a bit difficult to work out. (This is going to get a bit "us and them", for which I apologise; while I think we can all play a bit of each others game and style, I really don't think you can be both - the cultures are incompatible.) I can very happily get on with doing my own things while those that want to PvP get on with theirs, and I have had a lot of fun joining in to help my friends attack or defend outposts, or both , when I could (remembers Oisac and I trying to break up a spawn-camp in Dunes of Exile, absolutely hopelessly ). And it seems to me that a lot of the outpost items are being shared pretty generously. Which is wonderful and contrary, I think, to the competitive culture that is PvP.

I don't know how my cooperative playstyle has any influence on those that want to compete, except when I show my support or when I have been outraged by their actions. I do think that their competitive playstyle does affect everyone, though, by denying content. The rarest content, of course, and therefore some of the very best.

A little anecdote:

The other day I was showing a couple of fresh refugees around; a little sightseeing and a few teleport pacts. "This is Psykopla Knoll. The kitin invaded all the Matis cities from here just after I arrived, I died just there - *points*" etc."Bodokin lives here, oh sorry he's not at home. Shame, 'cos he's a lot of fun " ... "Psykokin grows here ... ummm, sometimes, I'm told". You see where this is leading? Gibbakin here, Ginkin there, Freakin up here, Munchkin over yonder. Not a single boss mob to be found on our wanderings. "No, there's no creature with THAT name, young matis, don't be rude!"

I may well be wrong, but it seems to me that all of the queen creatures are being systematically harvested, just as some Supreme foraging sources have been for a long time. Only competitive players would do this - it makes sense to deny your opponents the best resources if you can. If so, this is a big problem because I think everybody on Atys enjoys nothing more than the discovery of something special that they haven't seen before. And the queens are beautiful

I thought of a couple of suggestions:

• PvE Tag: If a player is in a guild that owns an outpost, or if a player clicks "Attack" or "Defend" at the site of an Outpost battle, then this Tag is set and prevents them from attacking a queen mob or healing someone involved in an attack on a queen mob. It would also prevent them from digging all Supreme forage sources except for supernodes. The Tag clears itself one Jena Year, or perhaps an Atys cycle would be better, after the last such outpost action or ownership.
• Hamlet mobs: When a queen is killed a ghostly version takes her place until she respawns, so that at least explorers can enjoy some discovery and take pictures. This sprang to mind because I vividly remember spending weeks looking for kitin larvae when I heard they existed. They at least pop of their own accord, even if they have no content, so it was wonderful to find a source, only frustrating not to see any content for weeks and weeks.

While I like the Tag idea because it does something to redress the balance between PvP and PvE content - giving non-PvP people something special to trade with PvP people for Outpost resources - I think competitive natures will inevitably find a way round, leading to denial of content again.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough. Not going to say goodbye to Kindle because she left 2 months ago and must be due to come back any day now \o/

[sprite]

I may well be wrong, but it seems to me that all of the queen creatures are being systematically harvested, [...] Only competitive players would do this

*hides all the fyros choice, exc, and even supreme mob mats he got at the last server up*

When the server came back up after the crash/reboot/whatever, I went out and bashed around as many "Slayer" mobs as I could find, any named I thought I had a chance against, and even Izaketh ( ). Some for revenge (that dang Slayer Rendor was far too uppity when I was a newb you know ) and some for the thrill (being able to 'duo' a -keth mob was pretty dang cool I can tell ya ) but definately not to deny them to anyone else (though I did see a couple of people more than once on my trip who may have thought so )

[jamela]

Named creatures respawn after 2-5 hours don't they? It's the queens and bandit leaders that rarely respawn. Are they seasonal like Sup forage mats? There are haunts that I pass regularly, like Bodokin, Najakya, Psykokin, Ginkin. I have never ever seen Psykokin. Najakya a couple of times (awesomely beautiful). I did see Ginkin 2 or 3 weeks ago. But for that I don't think I have more than 5 queen sightings this year, when a year ago I might have bumped into 5 in a week.

Derailing the thread, sorry :/

[jamela]

Well I've seen far more of the queen mobs in the last few days, some that I never knew existed. I just found Psykokin at home!
I hope other people came across a few pleasant surprises too. Thanks very much.

[evalisa]

From what i have seen it is still a shareing culture, even with outposts, those who do not wish to participate in the PvP battles do not have to have outposts, many guilds seem happy to pass around spare crystals

The two cultures co-exist pretty well imo, i am sorry to see you leavign over it

Best wishes

[dakhound]

bah named/boss mobs aint that hard to find (unless your talking madakoo)

just a case of working together with your guild to identify the ones who are up and the ones who are down. Takes 5 mins for 5 people to check all the "worthwhile" bosses

sometimes you get lucky and more than 3-4 are up

[aardnebb]

Well I've seen far more of the queen mobs in the last few days, some that I never knew existed. I just found Psykokin at home!
I hope other people came across a few pleasant surprises too. Thanks very much.

I did indeed! Really enjoyed that, thankyou

[iwojimmy]

....
I may well be wrong, but it seems to me that all of the queen creatures are being systematically harvested, just as some Supreme foraging sources have been for a long time. Only competitive players would do this - it makes sense to deny your opponents the best resources if you can. If so, this is a big problem because I think everybody on Atys enjoys nothing more than the discovery of something special that they haven't seen before. And the queens are beautiful

.....

have you considered, that for some people who arent interested in PvP, Boss hunting is about the only challenge worth pursuing ?

an event where teamwork and tactics are required, but without the infantile name calling and all the rest of the PvP cultural baggage. So what if someone on their free trial week cant be shown a boss.. If everything was available that easily, it wouldnt be worth doing.

(Somewhat tired and bitter right now, after staying up til 6.00 am trying to defend an OP the owners didnt even bother with . Very little in PvP ends up worth the aggravation )

[motan]

It seems to me that as a whole, we do pretty well. Yes, there are some growing pains and there may be some time till everybody adjusts to the changes brought by the outposts... but I'm optimistic after I've seen the way we dealt with the "easter" conflicts.

We love the op mats and cats... but most of the time we played ryzom we didn't have any and we still did well. Victory in PvP depends more on skill and teamwork than on uber equipment.

Finally, as a person enjoying PvP, I thing that loving and respecting your enemy is very important. The best fun one can have is to fight against a skilled and curteous player enemy... even the best NPC AI is boring and stupid in comparison.