My thoughts on the KA

[popkin]

Hello everyone.Heard tons of commotions and ppl saying about this thread so i desided to read it myself.Im farely new to this game (only 4 moonths) and ill say what i saw so far.Both kara and kami ppl rock(exept a few rotten apples on both sides) everyone is very helpfull and frindly here and becouse of that i became and SoR addict.When i started this game all i saw then is kamis heving power now the tables have turned a little and may turn a lil more or kamis getting power like RL staff u know.Its kinda tough to see ppl taking a GAME so seriosly and trust me i take it too but this way some ppl gonna se a therapists .What happened this weekend was crazy i admit but thats how game goes .So plz dont make dessisions on hot head(ussually ends badly).And also if KA became strong dont recomend for them to brake up couse kamis are as strong if not more i see this everyday it just happened for KA to be more organsed at this time.
P.S.Im not 100% right on what i saw i know couse im playing short period of time but my poit is guys i love this game and the players very much(have a few in my black book too ) but lets enjoy this game couse u never know what tommorow brings.Have Fun Jocker

[iwojimmy]

.....
- good for them I say, as long as everyone agrees that there should be no stigma to attacking anyone who owns an OP - if everyone accepts the fact that that's what OPs are there for,
....

You need to talk to DoubleTap, then.

Just to clarify this publicly as I already have privately.

...... and we'll be taking names of all those attending... Our counter attacks will surely effect each and every guild that attends the attacks on our outposts.

You may have released the Krakken...

As a member of a Guild in the KA I am tarred with the same brush as the megalomaniacs and fanatics that seem to be running the show. Personally I am on the side of Nexus, but since my Guild IS in the KA, I doubt I can get away with helping in the attack

[marct]

As a member of a Guild in the KA I am tarred with the same brush as the megalomaniacs and fanatics that seem to be running the show. Personally I am on the side of Nexus, but since my Guild IS in the KA, I doubt I can get away with helping in the attack

It's sad that this must be said repeatedly, but no one runs the show. Ours is a concensus management. If you do not agree, speak with your guild leadership. Maybe your guild does not know some of it's members do not agree, or would like more insight into the ongoings at the alliance level. But please do not make statements like this about someone, or a few 'running the show' when you are likely not aware of the processes we go through at that level. It is just inflammatory and wrong.

All of the folks at that table talking are leadership of their respective guilds.

[vguerin]

You need to talk to DoubleTap, then.

As a member of a Guild in the KA I am tarred with the same brush as the megalomaniacs and fanatics that seem to be running the show. Personally I am on the side of Nexus, but since my Guild IS in the KA, I doubt I can get away with helping in the attack

[OOC] You cannot be an active member if you confuse what DT posts in these forums with my part in alliance matters and discussions.

I am curious why you try to be part of the problem around here by spreading misinformation when there are members of your guild that know differently. If DT doesn't support a position I must make with my allies I am very clear on that and there is not a member of the alliance discussions that confuses what I post as DT and what we talk about in house. Why not get off that dead horse and try and be more involved in what your guild does and ask them instead of making misinformed posts. IC and OOC are not the same for many of us... [/OOC]

[sprite]

- good for them I say, as long as everyone agrees that there should be no stigma to attacking anyone who owns an OP - if everyone accepts the fact that that's what OPs are there for,

You need to talk to DoubleTap, then.

As well as the previous replies:

There's a big difference between calling someone a 'force of evil trying to ruin the game for everyone else' (stigma) and saying 'go ahead and attack if you like, just know that there will be consequences to your actions' (DT). I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that both IG and IRL, every action has a consequence

[lexi44]

Yiiiikes, I didn't realize that was your definition of "stigma" when I used that in a reply to you earlier, Sprite....that is certainly not what I meant when I used it.

Let me back up and rephrase what I was getting to when *I* said the "stigma of declaring on a KA OP". What I meant is, if a KA guild wanted to seriously declare on another KA-held OP, they would never be able to do it because those in the KA would go nuts with "you were a friend, you were an ally, how dare you!". Just because KA *does not* delcare on KA. So because of that, there are several OP's that are "unattackable" to those in the KA that just want to play around and use OP for what they were actually intended for...battling over.

Okay, three times now I've gone on to write a lot more and just ended up deleting it, so for now this is all I'm gonna say. I'm trying extremely hard not to flare up any flame wars, but that's dang hard to do when I see folks that apparently don't know how influential what they say actually is, and make big statements then try to step back and say "oh I'm just one person". Then you have others that use statements like "bring it on!" and as soon as someone does, the guild does an about-face and asks not to be declared on "right now".

I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that both IG and IRL, every action has a consequence

Absolutely true!!! Though I'll add to that...."words" have consequences too.

[sprite]

Yiiiikes, I didn't realize that was your definition of "stigma" when I used that in a reply to you earlier, Sprite....that is certainly not what I meant when I used it.

Well I do agree there are other stigmas, and I'm gonna try and explain this as best I can...

iwojimmy's post seemed to me to be saying that while I was asking for no stigma to be attached to attacking outposts, in his/her view, DT was attaching one in the form of counter-attacks. (Quite why DTs views should have any effect on my own is a whole other post )

In reply to this I tried to say that DTs comment does not show a stigma; as far as I know he has no problem with anyone attacking outposts, as long as they play fair and have no problem with the consequences of their words/actions (correct me if I'm wrong here DT).

I personally see a few 'stigmas' around the place,

Firstly the one I mentioned that if an alliance guild declared on anyone else there were always cries of us being a 'force of evil trying to ruin the game for everyone else' - that to me is a stigma attached to our attacks

Secondly as you say, there may have been a perceived stigma that people *could not* attack alliance OPs without things going badly, either another alliance guild being unable because you don't attack allies (personally I agree with Sehr's post below on this one) or an "opposing guild" not being able to because we would bring the entire alliance to the party.

To the 2nd case, I would say that if you don't have the ability to call on your allies to help you, if that really any fault of ours? As well as that, I personally have absolutely no problem with anyone attacking alliance OPs; its just the exaggerations or claims used to justify it that I have issue with (see the 'force of evil' comment as well as the Nexus vs OV thread) ... if you wanna attack, go ahead without coming up with some crazy claims about it so we can all have fun

[sehracii]

Let me back up and rephrase what I was getting to when *I* said the "stigma of declaring on a KA OP". What I meant is, if a KA guild wanted to seriously declare on another KA-held OP, they would never be able to do it because those in the KA would go nuts with "you were a friend, you were an ally, how dare you!". Just because KA *does not* delcare on KA. So because of that, there are several OP's that are "unattackable" to those in the KA that just want to play around and use OP for what they were actually intended for...battling over.

Yes, if a guild just went and declared without warning it would not end well. The only reason to atack an ally would be if you thought you were deserving of an upgrade. In that situation, I'm sure that the KA is mature enough to support a friendly GvG challenge.

The reason we haven't seen this is probably because you can simply go trade with the guild for what you want instead of fighting them. I think for most of us we don't view the outposts as guild property but KA property and we all own them all.

There seem to be enough battles going on lately we don't need to add more to the mix just to have some fun.

[lexi44]

It's sad that this must be said repeatedly, but no one runs the show. Ours is a concensus management. If you do not agree, speak with your guild leadership. Maybe your guild does not know some of it's members do not agree, or would like more insight into the ongoings at the alliance level. But please do not make statements like this about someone, or a few 'running the show' when you are likely not aware of the processes we go through at that level. It is just inflammatory and wrong.

All of the folks at that table talking are leadership of their respective guilds.

I understand what you are saying, Noin....and I agree "megalomaniacs" and "fanatics running the show" are harsh words and are inflamatory. However, you have to admit Iwojimmy has a point. He is in the KA, and wants to support the Nexus attack on OV....but because he's in the Alliance, that would have dire consequences to his own guild.

But I would also say to Iwojimmy, like Sprite said....actions have consequences. If you are in the KA, then yes you are bound by certain very basic "agreements", and attacking another Alliance guild is gonna have it's consequences. The only other choice (other than just sitting it out) is to leave the KA...which *could* have it's own consequences. But that's just part of the "Politics mini-game" that is part of our lives on Atys - if you choose to play that game.

As for the "if you don't agree, speak with your guild leadership" statement, there's a little problem with that. Not everyone in the Alliance has access to the Alliance forums (for good reason!!!) and may not even be aware of what is being discussed. How can you agree or disagree with something you don't even know is "on the table"? At *most*, those that don't have access get only a little synopsis of what might be discussed....not the "whole picture".

[lexi44]

Yes, if a guild just went and declared without warning it would not end well. The only reason to atack an ally would be if you thought you were deserving of an upgrade. In that situation, I'm sure that the KA is mature enough to support a friendly GvG challenge.

The reason we haven't seen this is probably because you can simply go trade with the guild for what you want instead of fighting them. I think for most of us we don't view the outposts as guild property but KA property and we all own them all.

There seem to be enough battles going on lately we don't need to add more to the mix just to have some fun.

Thank you for kind of saying what I said when I stated..."OP's have become more 'AvNA' (Alliance vs. Non-Alliance) than GvG or FvF". That is exactly the point I was making....that the Alliance views Alliance-held OP's as "their own" and anyone attacking an Alliance OP will generally meet the majority of the Alliance on the battlefield. (for those that like to nit-pick, please notice I said "GENERALLY" meet the "MAJORITY" of the Alliance...I didn't say always, and I didn't say ALL).