The Science of Atys

[riveit]

All life on Atys is said to contain/be contaminated with particals of the Void or Dragon ash , the Karavan cannot live with it yet they have promised their slaves that theyl take them "Home" with them once theyve used up/Depleted/Destroyed Atys , doesnt sound likely does it ?

[Sorry for off-topic but couldnt resist the urge to enlighten Riveit as to his not so rosey future with the Karavan , theres only one way youl be going through Jenas "Pearly Gates"]

Yes indeed, Petej. Riveit is well aware of these theological conundrums and devotes much of his time meditating on them. One possibility is that when the faithful newly-made Elect homins are taken off Atys, they will be purified - as Jena has done before -and made free of Draconic Ash. Another possiblility, is that the Draconic ash in our tissues will be bound and harmless to the Pure Elect. A third scenario is that on the next planet, the Elect Homins will be required to wear the sacred armor of the Karavan at all times. In fact, Riveit was planning on asking the Karavan for the answers to these very questions.

However, at least now, every time Riveit puts on this sacred armored skirt, he feels safer since his loins are protected from Draconic Ash.

[kitnyx]

Great idea about the Yubo and the Frippo. But, I think it makes more sense that the Kami created the Frippo to keep the Matis from using their Magics to transform Fleeting Garden. It is said that the Matis tried to tame Fleeting Garden by building walls, and the Kami put a stop to that. The Frippo draining the magics of the Matis shapers would have been a Kami way... nothing dies, nothing is hurt, nothing is permanently lost.

Oh, yes, I did read the post about the moons, and yes, I did sit in the desert to verify it. There are only two moons and the "sun", as well as the "nebula" which appears to imposibly move within the star system.

Signed: Loryen Roqvini

[sidusar]

Great idea about the Yubo and the Frippo. But, I think it makes more sense that the Kami created the Frippo to keep the Matis from using their Magics to transform Fleeting Garden. It is said that the Matis tried to tame Fleeting Garden by building walls, and the Kami put a stop to that. The Frippo draining the magics of the Matis shapers would have been a Kami way... nothing dies, nothing is hurt, nothing is permanently lost.

Yes, I considered that too. Both are possible. But in the end I decided it more likely that the Matis created the frippo, because:
- The Matis already created the yubo, so we know they have experience with that sort of thing.
- The Kami rely totally on their magic. It wouldn't make sense for them to create a creature that could potentially be such a serious threat to themselves. (Matis use technology too, it's not as bad for them to loose their magic.)
- The Kami tried to stop the Matis from manipulating nature. Creating a new creature is also manipulating nature. You don't stop nature from being manipulated by manipulating nature yourself.
- Nothing says that the Matis used magic to build those walls. I don't think the Matis actually use magic to manipulate plants the way they do. I'm not sure how they do do it, but they've apparently been doing it for hundreds of years, and they've only recently learned to use magic.

On the other hand:
- The Kami know far more about magic than the Matis do. They'd likely have better ideas on how to counter magic users as well.
- If the Matis know how to create a creature that can drain a homin's sap, why haven't they learned how to do it themselves by now?
- We know from the temple wars that the Kami are hypocritical enough to declare "stripmining Atys is bad, except when it's for our temple", so they might very well also believe that "manipulating nature is bad, unless we do it". Come to think of it, those Kami outpost drills look like manipulating nature to me.

So yes, both sides could've created the frippo. I just think that all in all it's more likely the Matis did it. We know the Kami used magic to stop the Matis from manipulating nature, so who would've been more likely to manipulate nature to stop the other side from using magic?

[kaetemi]

Dark Magic ofc ^^

[kitnyx]

I am not sure the Kami would need to manipulate nature to create a new animal... Matis would and does, but I am beginning to think that the Kami might be able to create from scratch. Perhaps they are the physical manifestation of the Ryzom (if the Ryzom is a terraforming machine/computer which does so through the use of self replicating nanites)... beings made entirely of Nanites, that explains their ability to appear and disappear and it also scientifically explains their use of magics. Magic then would only be nanites which saturate everything on Atys (the dragon dust) recombining/ destroying the mats it is in.

If this were the case, the Kami could create anything at whim... but, just because they can does not mean they do.

Interesting thought... could the goo then be over self replicating nanites... devouring everything? Why then would a machine programmed to create Atys, turn against its own programming.

(This is just ideas, some have already been mentioned here and elsewhere...none is backed by my own personal observations, just trying to find answers that answer all the questions, not ones that answer one but conflict with another...of course, truth with no predictive power is...only another religion)

Signed: Loryen Roqvini

[raven41]

Interesting thought... could the goo then be over self replicating nanites... devouring everything? Why then would a machine programmed to create Atys, turn against its own programming.

A virus thats all it really is ..is it not ? My theary is that atys was here alreay and Karavan crashed here (wich would explane the disrepair most of there floating ships apear to be in)and the goo is from the crash and is a form of radiation form the engens hence why it "infects" creatures and makes homins die ..In PR iv seen large(looks like)Jet engens could be from a crash of somesort no ? otherwise how did they get there ...and homins dont have metel to make that sort of thing......thats just my little theary on goo

[sidusar]

I didn't mean to say that the Kami manipulated nature to create a new animal, I meant to say that they manipulated nature by creating a new animal.

Creating a new animal and releasing it in an existing ecosystem is manipulating nature, no matter how you created that animal.

One could ofcourse argue that the Kami are the caretakers of Atys' ecosystem, that they are the spirit of nature on Atys, and that they know exactly what needs to be done to keep the planet in balance. So they have a right to change whatever needs to be changed. While the Matis only seek to shape nature for their own benefits with no regards for the possible damage to the planet. Still, that doesn't change that the Kami do in fact manipulate nature.

Magic then would only be nanites which saturate everything on Atys (the dragon dust) recombining/ destroying the mats it is in.

Interesting thought... could the goo then be over self replicating nanites... devouring everything? Why then would a machine programmed to create Atys, turn against its own programming.

I'm not usually one for explaining magic with science. If you do that it's not magic anymore

Anyways, 'nanites' usually means machines at the nanometer scale. The Karavan might use something like that. The Kami would be more likely to use a biological variant. Singecelled creatures, bacteria, or virus, that would work in the same way you envisioned the nanites to work. And whatever it is, the Goo is obviously a corrupted form of it.

Perhaps the machine has come to believe the Kami, with all their nature-manipulating, are a threat to Atys and created the Goo to destroy them

[acridiel]

As Arthur C. Clark stated once:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So, who´s to say who´s using Magic and who´s using technology?
And I agree with raven41.
It´s interesting to see how the same questions and theories seem to pop up from different people every few month in a thread very similar to this one.
As I´ve stated allready a looong time ago.
What better to inspire a Dragon-Myth in a "primitive" race, then a Spaceship crashing from the sky in a ball of flame? (or blasting away with lasers at advancing Kitin for that matter)
And what better for the inhabitants of said ship as to stile themselves "gods from the stars" and declare the "crash site" as off limits or "holy" to them.
And maybe, just maybe the Goo is an attempt by the Karavan at "terraforming" the planet. Notice the breathing gear?

Or is there something even mor sinister going on,
a force wich we know allready but wich has taken on a new disguise: The Truth about the Karavan

CU
Acridiel

[sidusar]

As Arthur C. Clark stated once:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Now that you mention that, I've always found that rather fascinating about homins.

We humans, we define 'science' (or technology, which is the application of science) as everything we understand, and 'magic' as everything we don't understand. As Clark stated, science that we can't explain is magic to us. And magic that we find an explanation for becomes science.

Homins don't think of it like that. They see 'technology' as the strange powers that the Karavan use, and 'magic' as the strange powers that the Kami use. They've learned some of both, and thus understand as much of technology as they understand of magic. But meanwhile the Karavan and Kami still use advanced technology and advanced magic that is beyond homin understanding.

Homins don't see magic and technology the way we do. We see one as something that is familiar and the other as something that is mysterious. They see both as being equally familiar and equally mysterious. A homin would never say "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", because he understands magic.

Though a homin might say that "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced magic." If something is beyond a homin's understanding, he'd have no idea whether it's technology or magic

[acridiel]

Hehehe. Good point.

Though, why havent they figured out yet that "the Dragon" might just not be a mystical beast, but a spaceship? As we as "Humans" have, or better would like to belive. I may be wrong here, just a theory.
Is there no doubt in Homins?
I think not.

Acridiel