PvP Tag: IC or OOC?

[sehracii]

Well, I've been wanting to get some various viewpoints on this for a while so lets have it.

Do you consider the PVP tag a pure OOC game mechanic or something you rationalize the existence of in IC terms?


I've heard a few people refer to it as some sort of protection from the gods but personally I have a hard time following. Both options raise some questions.

If it is indeed an IC protection from homin attack, why is it that it works when wandering Wastelands but not for example in Elusive Forest? And why can we not ask our deities for such protection from gingo? Or source gas?

The way I prefer to RP it is the faction tagged players merely can visually recongize potentially combative homins of the opposing faction. As in we have the capability to launch attacks at any homin anywhere but we choose not to because they are not our "enemy" or at least not currently recognized as a threat.

I suppose it adds weight to the "divine protection" side, but it just feels so awkward for me to have neutrals or untagged players sitting in the middle of a PVP or outpost battle (oh, good point, OP tags would fall into the same category for me) as if nothing is going on. Even if I were untagged my instincts would be to get out of the way. I know it's necessary for gameplay that they can't be hit, but IC I can't imagine 100% protection. I treat a warzone as such even if I'm not involved.

[evalisa]

I just play it as the Tagged people are armed and looking for a fight,
but the kami and karavan frown upon Homins killing Homins that do not wish to fight (those that are untagged)

that way i dont care when someone gets jumped, because they where looking for it, and i can walk around safe in the knowledge that no homin dare attack me without my permission (challenge or tag)

also fits in with the kami and kara people giving out missions on the badits

[aardnebb]

I suppose it adds weight to the "divine protection" side, but it just feels so awkward for me to have neutrals or untagged players sitting in the middle of a PVP or outpost battle (oh, good point, OP tags would fall into the same category for me) as if nothing is going on. Even if I were untagged my instincts would be to get out of the way. I know it's necessary for gameplay that they can't be hit, but IC I can't imagine 100% protection. I treat a warzone as such even if I'm not involved.

I have to go with "divine protection" since I cannot interfere no matter how much I want to. For me it is more comfortable for the game to tell me what I can _do_ than for the game to tell me what I can _think_.

So yeah, I decide what my character is thinking, but obviously what he can _do_ is limited by the rules of the world in which he lives.

*shrugs* individual milages may vary, but we do need a consensus on this IMHO, or IC disagreements may be made worse by misunderstandings.

Plus you can blame people for their "choices" when its actually the game limiting their actions.

[katriell]

Do you consider the PVP tag a pure OOC game mechanic or something you rationalize the existence of in IC terms?

When you RP almost all the time you're logged in, like I do, you pretty much have to find ways to explain everything IC...so yes, it is.

I can't recall at the moment how I've referred to it in the past, though...

[kaetemi]

something you rationalize the existence of in IC terms

The Kami/Karavan summon a floating square with their logo above your head when you want to fight for them against the enemy faction. > IC enough?

[sidusar]

A little of both.

I believe that it is an OOC game mechanic. It wasn't designed to make sense within the IC context. IC it makes no sense that one homin can't attack another whenever they choose to, but OOC that's necesary to keep the game fun.

But that doesn't mean you can't try to rationalize the existence of it in IC terms. That it was implemented as an OOC mechanic doesn't change that it has an effect on the lives of our characters.

Though it's not actually the tag that needs to be rationalized. It's why you can't attack any homin whenever you want. If you have an explanation for that, the tag is just the absense of that.

Some divine/magical/physical force that protects us from being attacked by other homins doesn't make much sense, as you said. Why wouldn't it protect us from bandits, hostile tribes, or maurauders? The only rationale I could think of is that, as long as all 4 homins civilisations are at peace, we are forbidden to attack other homins. The penalty being so severe that nobody would dare break this rule. Our leaders decide we can't attack other homins, so we can't. Obviously player characters currently don't have the choice to break this rule and so turn away from society to become outlaws.

Then exceptions to the rule, like the tag and the PvP areas, would be indeed exceptions to the rule. The homin leaders recognised that the Kamists and the Karavaneers wanted to kill eachother. So to keep them happy and prevent total war, they decided that whoever wanted to could fight the members of the opposite faction.

Personally I don't like this way of rationalizing it. It means that those who have a tag on choose themselves to be attacked, both OOC and IC. What if I want to play a character who (IC) doesn't want to be attacked, but I as player do want it to be possible (OOC) for my character to be attacked? That's not possible if you consider the tags as IC.

But if you consider the tags as OOC, then it makes no sense IC that those character without the tags can't be attacked.

Afraid I can't offer a solution for this.

[aardnebb]

A little of both.

I believe that it is an OOC game mechanic. It wasn't designed to make sense within the IC context. IC it makes no sense that one homin can't attack another whenever they choose to, but OOC that's necesary to keep the game fun.

Actually, read the bit about respawning in the Embalmer story in Chronicals of Atys.

Its something granted by the gods, not everyone gets it for free... we the PCs are "exceptional" already.

So if we are exceptional with respect to getting respawns, why not PvP protection? Especially given it protects many NPCs too... (ever tried to kill a shopkeeper after accidentally selling your uber gear?)

[sidusar]

So if we are exceptional with respect to getting respawns, why not PvP protection? Especially given it protects many NPCs too... (ever tried to kill a shopkeeper after accidentally selling your uber gear?)

Indeed. That's what seperates the PCs from the NPCs. We're the chosen of the higher powers that for whatever reason have been granted the privilege of being resurrected.

That I can understand. But it makes no sense to me that they have the power to grant us immunity from attacks by other homins. If they have that power, why not apply it to bandits too? It does make sense to me that they have the power to prohibit their followers from attacking certain other homin, those who don't wish to fight, like shopkeepers.

The protection is because we can't attack the shopkeepers, not because the shopkeepers can't be attacked.

And no, can't say that I have. I've tried to kill a hawker after she wandered off into the GoC maze again though

[rushin]

IC, although it causes some headaches!

I have had ppl demand that i not RP with them, and others that think because i am tagged it means i want to be attacked with no reason pffffft

[iwojimmy]

......
That I can understand. But it makes no sense to me that they have the power to grant us immunity from attacks by other homins. If they have that power, why not apply it to bandits too? It does make sense to me that they have the power to prohibit their followers from attacking certain other homin, those who don't wish to fight, like shopkeepers.

...

perhaps we should use the other name for bandits, then.

outlaws

people who are outside the limitations and protections of the law.

It seems the powers that govern the Atysverse will make a token bow in the direction of fair play, and allow people who are attacked to fight back, so if someone is of a combative nature by inclination or duty ( eg tribal guards), then they are legitimate targets and can be interacted with in a violent manner . PvP tags can be seen as an extension of this, with the non-tagged as inviolate to attack as any civilian (excluding CoC violations like aggro-dragging)