Try this one for size

[philu]

I was originally going to post this as a poll to gauge people's opinions but couldn't decide on a balanced set of options - maybe I'll run one later if I get constructive responses to this.

The Yrkanis Shield nonsense plus some other recent discussions I have had or read have brought to mind a proposal for a change to the game. If you insist on having your faction war then I think it's time to escalate it. I think the city/town guards should get involved too. It's time they started faction KOS too. Hasn't each civilisation chosen a faction? Then why do Yrkanis guards allow the enemy to wander their streets? Or Dyron's guards allow pro-Karavan into town?

It could be done along 'traditional' lines (Matis + Tryker = Karavan, Fyros + Zorai = Kami) or, better still, Nevrax could even run a referendum (like the Fyros one) to allow the people to choose sides - Kami, Karavan or neutral. That would truly allow us to impact the story.

If a race chooses neutral, the guards just do civ fame. If they choose Kami or Karavan, the guards KOS the 'other' faction. Neutrals can come and go at will. It would give neutrality a better impact than the half hearted (and down right poor in EP2) attempts have done so far.

Whether the choice was made by a vote or traditional lines, perhaps the capitals could be slightly different and allow anyone who wasn't PvP enabled (i.e. they come in peace) to enter. Only problem then is what happens if the flag is turned on once inside. Can the patrolling guards attack, or are they like the tribe patrols?

Another method of implementing it would be for PvP to affect fame. After all, if a Fyros goes around repeatedly killing Matis homins, shouldn't they have bad fame with the Matis? So the other option would be you lose civilisation fame when you kill a member of that race - be they NPC or player. When your fame drops low enough - you're a notorious Fyros/Matis/Tryker/Zorai killer - the guards don't tolerate you being in town.

I don't want this war, never have, but if it's going to be forced upon us then lets see some REAL consequences for taking part. Let's up the ante a bit.


Discuss.

[marct]

The problem I see is that then would affect all Kami affiliated players, not just the PvP tagged ones. I think we were doing a good job to only attack the people who had consented to PvP.

[rushin]

one issue is a player created one of crafters and diggers (myself included) who craft/dig the enemy faction stuff but i would give up matis la, it's mostly yukky

PvP affecting fame is a good idea, but your suggestion too simplistic and i can see lots of problems. for example. a zorai player is karavan factioned, another zorai kamist kills them in PvP and loses Zorai fame... The scope for choice with factions and race alignment makes fame effects from PvP difficult, sticking to faction fame rewards/penalities and faction guards is more straightforward.

If guards attack opposite faction tagged players in towns (going by traditional alignments) and a change is made so it's not possible to tag inside a town that would be a path to annoy the least ammount of people - but there will still a lot it adversly affects..

Slightly off tangent how about putting the old land camps back how they were and enabling PvP again - would give somewhere fun for ppl to fight and not annoy the townsfolk.

[cloudy97]

Kami/Karavan != Civilizations

True, Matis is the biggest Karavan zealots on Atys, but remember that king Yrkanis himself once hid away from Jinovitch in Zora, where the most dedicated Kamists live. I doubt he would order the guards to kill all Zorai or Kamists.

The Yrkanis Shielding Act is not signed by Yrkanis, but is the work of a guild of vigilantes and is therefore not valid as a law.

Said that, I would also like to see people with minus 60 civ fame KOS by city guards. Maybe it should only be triggered when they see an aggresive act?

[philu]

The problem I see is that then would affect all Kami affiliated players, not just the PvP tagged ones. I think we were doing a good job to only attack the people who had consented to PvP.

That's exactly my point. You choose a side, you must accept the consequences of affiliation. I personally wouldn't have a problem with that. I wanted to see if others did and other thoughts on how it could be implemented.

Kami/Karavan != Civilizations

True, Matis is the biggest Karavan zealots on Atys, but remember that king Yrkanis himself once hid away from Jinovitch in Zora, where the most dedicated Kamists live. I doubt he would order the guards to kill all Zorai or Kamists.

I never said they were. My point is that lines are supposed to be being drawn, sides taken, war has begun. I feel it's time the game mechanics reflected that.

It wasn't so long ago that Yrkanis was doing just that, advocating attacking other races. He may have tempered his stance since then but there is no doubt he is a Karavan supporter.

[petej]

Kami/Karavan != Civilizations

True, Matis is the biggest Karavan zealots on Atys, but remember that king Yrkanis himself once hid away from Jinovitch in Zora, where the most dedicated Kamists live. I doubt he would order the guards to kill all Zorai or Kamists.

The Yrkanis Shielding Act is not signed by Yrkanis, but is the work of a guild of vigilantes and is therefore not valid as a law.

Said that, I would also like to see people with minus 60 civ fame KOS by city guards. Maybe it should only be triggered when they see an aggresive act?

Agreed , it would be better imo , if the Town Guards stopped conflicts within the City limits by killing anyone involved with PvP (whatever Faction) , they are there to uphold the peace / keep order not wage war

[iwojimmy]

I have always beleived, that if you have high fame with ANY faction/civ/tribe, that they should take it badly when someone kills you. I mean, these people think you are a friend, and a wonderful person, and a credit to their cause, and you have done so much for them, or really nice for a blue guy, or whatever.. so if anyone goes around killing you, they shouldnt just ignore it.
A killers fame should be penalised relative to the fame with the various factions (not just kara/kami) their victim has.. and low enough fame should trigger KOS for all the relevant guards. Conversely, if you kill someone who is an avowed enemy of a particular group, you should earn that groups gratitude also.
The end result would be similar to the declared Civ/Faction alignment system, some people are your friends, and some people are legitimate targets..
This would have allowed the diplomats some scope in the game, the people who made lots of friends would have some protection once the killers realised they were costing themselves reputation (fame) with everyone by attacking them.
Unfortunately, the way Ep 2 changed the fame system, and the fame caps for neutrals pretty much killed this idea :'(

A couple of caveats (?)
deaths in official fights.. Duels, OP battles, Old Lands type areas, the contested (GvG) regions, would not count towards these penalties.