On the ending of Ryzom and other stories

[etrusan]

I have decided to quit Ryzom after nearly two months of playing. Ryzom has been the shortest I’ve played any game post-release seriously. I’ve decided to go back to playing Eve, however, I think Ryzom has a lot of good things going for it hence the subject of this letter. This letter should be read as being criticism in the classical sense of the word.

I wrote about the problems with the Ryzom economy before. This was my first (and only) post on these boards. After playing and becoming more immersed into Ryzom society my reasoning behind the lack of a good Ryzom economy have only been confirmed. This is the number one problem facing new player retention today. My original solution was, generally on mark, but still shallow. Having a system which requires players to craft / forage / produce anything strictly for the utility of “skilling” is neither realistic nor a good market solution and this inherently this a major crow bar into my remedy which I proposed. As was rightly pointed out, crafters need to craft thousands of goods in order to skill just a few levels. The market can not absorb these goods and hence they are simply dumped to NPC vendors at wildly inflated prices. Crafters have little incentive to “meet market demand” and even if they did the GUI which is in the game will not allow buyers and sellers to meet, hence the transaction cost of any good is extremely high and production for the sake of trade rarely occurs.

What Ryzom fails to recognize as a game is that skilling = time. Some people have more time at their exposure to play games then others and it is inherently unfair from a perspective justice to award people more ranks of skill simply because they can spend more time online. I also strongly dislike grinding. Though, if there is a definitive goal I will grind to achieve this goal. In Ryzom, you grind to be awarded with yet more grinding. For example, I can grind my digging skill and be awarded with a higher dig skill so I can grind more. I can grind my fame skill so I can get awarded with PR access so I can grind more in the PR.

This is not logical game design. A more rational system is the system which Eve has implemented and that is the system which gives you skill points for time directly, no matter if you are online or offline. This eliminates the grind and is a just outcome.

People will continue to play a game even if it is content-less so long as they can continue to accrue power, wealth, and fame (real fame). If these things are empty or missing players will either not play at all or they will play for the novelty and soon move on. I can use the example of Eve here, people do not play Eve for the end game; there is no end game. We can talk about the litany of reasons about why people play each individual game but one thing about Ryzom which is nearly for certain; few people play Ryzom because they enjoy it. They play Ryzom because they acquired a social circle of friends and they get a certain benefit from this. If and when people realize this they will leave with their circle of friend(s). I am certain I will get many replies saying “I enjoy Ryzom!”. And, you are in the few. This is not unique to Ryzom. I once saw a poll about EQ when I played asking why people and an amazing number (for greater then 50%) played because of their friends / guild. Once WoW and EQ2 came out, these guilds / friends moved.

Playing a game for the hope that good new content will be released in the future is not a very good measuring stick. When I advise people on buying and selling stock, I always say: If you ever use the word “hope” then it is time to sell. The same is true with online games. If you are saying: I hope Nevrex will release good content in the next patch, then you have already gone past the point of no return.

Nevrex wishes to release R2, which is player created content and this is a mistake. Player created content in an online world is a non-competitive business model and I am surprised the VC’s didn’t stomp this. What Ryzom is aiming for is player driven content and that is an entirely different beast. There is a little of this in Ryzom, but the real player driven content can be found in Eve.

The XP crystals is actual game content and an objective except it is an extremely poor one (albeit the only thing in the game at the moment). This is a system where power will beget yet more power and is inherently bad. Small guilds wishing to come up from the bottom will never have the same opportunity that larger and more established guilds do. Yes, it is true that certain guilds do pass out crystals, however they do this selectively to those whom they deem worthy and not equitably. The new thing which I forget the name of (which prevents spawning) will only exacerbate this. If you think one guild is difficult to remove with the option of infinite respawns, try it if you only have one go.

Player created content is preferred to GM driven content. Personally, and most people for that matter, have a tough time getting into an RP roll (most people in Ryzom can, however, since people tend to do what they are most efficient at). However, it is not difficult for me to get into a real player trying to exact revenge because of a lost ship, declare war on the enemy because of a real issue and not something abstract, or bending the market to my will. Gm driven content is extremely costly. Nevrex made a choice when making this game for Gm events weekly. I do not think they were prepared for how man power intensive this is. For each man/hour that is used in this one time here now gone tomorrow can not be used in permanent content. I think it was a good experiment myself, but I think this is something that Nevrex should seriously think about reconsidering. If people are playing 15 bucks a month for a two hour event which is only fun ¼ of the time (for each persons own preferences), then most people are going to quit or not bother subscribing.

All that said, I think Ryzom could be the best game out there which is why I tried it in the first place. I think a lot of the innovation at Nevrex is second to none. If some things do change for the positive, assuming the VC’s don’t pull the plug, then I will re-up my account. I'll continue to follow this thread and will be more then happy to answer any questions.

In the mean time, anyone who wishes to play Eve, you can find me there under the same name (Etruscus and my alt Etrusan).

[nielson]

Grind mats are the real dappers in game. Economy is at best wonky. I agree with pretty much everything you said. There is Nevrax driven content... but you have to open a browser to look at it. If you are trying to find it inside Atys good luck. I've given up looking for it.

[g00st]

its only a game dood but maybe the whole community needs a rethink...

[katriell]

Roleplaying solves all problems, at least for me. I don't need content, all the content I want is created by myself and my fellow roleplaying guild members.

[blaah]

This is not logical game design. A more rational system is the system which Eve has implemented and that is the system which gives you skill points for time directly, no matter if you are online or offline. This eliminates the grind and is a just outcome.

i played Eve for 3 months... or should i say, 1 month and then 2 months i only trained. basically, i needed new skills, but only thing there was for me to get them was to wait and wait and wait.

I like to be rewarded for my time spent in game and i want to be in control when and how fast i get that next skill. "Grinding" suits perfectly. (tho Ryzom has gone too far with that... lvl 200 skill cap with lvl 250 mobs should of been better


ohh and EvE's "end game" is living in 0.0 sec system (not to mention owning all that cool stuff which requirements you fullfill in 3 years non-stop training)

[edbock]

Frankly, RP in an MMO is nothing more than a person in front of a computer pretending to be the toon on-screen. It's highly subjective and it depends on continuity. If my framerates drops to inverted numbers because I make the mistake to face Fairhaven instead of always keeping my back to it, then immersion breaks and RP is broken. In fact, I logged off in disgust, and I have a high end computer with a high end NVidea sporting a whopping 256MB DDR. (The system itself has 1Gig at its disposal)

To underscore, I can run into Stormwind or Ironforge (WoW) during primetime in the weekend without slowing down. To enter Fairhaven I have to wait till my HDD stops spinning and I cleaned up and defragged it last afternoon. And that's no guarantee, even.

The Ryzom economy is a total joke. Don't even mention it, it doesn't excist. Simple as that. There's really no point in selling your stuff through NPC's because it only adds to the flooding. At least by selling it to an NPC, it's neatly disposed of, and you get something out of it.

I like the skilling up idea in the way it is implemented, what I don't like is that you forage like a gazillion items for ranged weapons and swords, (I should have gone for range weapon crafting really, something to keep in mind for an alt), but items that can be used for 'lining' in armorcrafting are rare.
If you have to kill heaps upon heaps of Yubo or Mektubs (spelling?) and get the "Tooth" in like 1 every 25 kills, then it's no wonder your melee gets stronger by a staggering factor. Also, if 2 hours of grinding only allows you to craft 6 pieces of armor because of the rare tooth, you'll understand why crafting takes the combined patience of the total monk base of a cloister.
On the other hand, it gives you something to do.

But I, and I only speak for myself here, don't play MMO's for the content. Because when your online during off hours in any MMO you'll realize that without friends there's preciously little content to start with.
Other people make your game, and you in return make theirs.

In Guildwars, there's nothing like going on missions with a few friends and camping out in a cleared map post charring, chatting about our RL business.

In WoW, the guildchat is what keeps you going during grindsessions. And again speaking only for myself, browsing the auction house for stuff to help lowbie guildies makes my day.

In Ryzom, I was immediately welcomed by Sxarlet upon entering Fairhaven and we had a nice chat.

You know what? That's the most important thing in an MMO for me. If the interaction with other people is alright, then the game could be monochrome line-art for all I care.

However, extreme lag just because your facing in the wrong direction is a real killer. Fairhaven isn't that big a place.

[rushin]

try different drivers maybe for the lag? or post ur specs in the tech support section and see if someone can help u out. I dont get any lag in fh.. when i only had a gig ram i turned far clip to 160m which stops all the million npc's being rendered

[blaah]

n fact, I logged off in disgust, and I have a high end computer with a high end NVidea sporting a whopping 256MB DDR. (The system itself has 1Gig at its disposal)

Ryzom is little selfish, because she wants CPU/HDD/Network all for herself.
those numbers dont mean nothing if you whole computer and software is not working correctly... and like i said, Ryzom _IS_ demanding (little too much tho ;-(

[kuroari]

Odd.. i can play the game - alt-tab out, open up programs like photoshop or even 3Ds Max, and run smoothly - i dont even have that great of a computer (though i built it myself and know how to tune things nicely on my own computer.. ¬.¬) - fairhaven works FINE for me.

besides all that.. i dont know, i'm not sure if i'm the only one that remembers.. Ryzom is supposed to happen all within around 8 years of gameplay.. technically if you look at it right - the story IS developing.. politics ARE a huge deal in the game.. bieng personally close to one of the guildleaders in game - i know that bieng GL makes for a rough Political system... its a MMORPG, we are the players, and we control what happens in game. Nevrax just throws an event at us once in a while and we take it the way we do.

i havent been around from the beginning of Retail - but i've witnessed some pretty drastic changes in the on-going story.. for instance - one day everything was nice and peaceful.. then all of a sudden the gods declared war on one another and asked us to join them by choosing sides. suddenly we were building temples in their honor. this caused such a fuss that the gods refused to aid those that did not side with them (like the whole TP problem) - this was such a huge problem that they even decided to re-enter the forbidden outposts and salvage hidden powers of the land. (new weapons and tools, Crystals) using the outposts - the gods followers and enemies gain new powers, those with the outposts, control Atys. the story will continue to unfold from there.

anybody that says there is no real story to Ryzom is looking in all the wrong places. Ryzom to me is just like my life - i know one day i'll grow up and finish Uni, then hopefully become a very successful Game Developer Person - and all that.. i DONT expect it to all happen RIGHT NOW.

There IS a story to Ryzom, and it IS in the game. many people consider these things 'annoying' but they forget, that war isn't supposed to be 'fun.' - Glory isnt achieved without hardship.

Proud Player of Ryzom, and HERE TO STAY.

[katriell]

/tar Nightblade
/agree

Frankly, RP in an MMO is nothing more than a person in front of a computer pretending to be the toon on-screen.

...And that is NOT real roleplay. That is not the kind of RP that makes me enjoy Ryzom as much as I do. That is not my content. That misconception is part of why people like you get dissatisfied and leave.

If that is RP, then am I RPing a little gamepiece when I play Monopoly? Or a little checkerpiece when I play checkers? Or, hell, the cursor/keyboard when I use a computer?

Roleplaying takes imagination. It takes no imagination to be a person in front of a computer playing a game that happens to have an avatar/character as the focal point.