OP rewards / AA's thread in the "Guilds" section

[kyesmith]

Well then what's wrong with my opinion that it is invalid?

Sxar posted that the reason Nexus don't appear to some people to be "actively karavan" is because they have mostly EU members. I posted the names of two other guilds that are predominantly EU based and obviously Karavan to people such as Spiff and DT.

If you wanna continue this, take it to a PM pls, don't wanna clutter the boards any more

clutter? you have posted 2,137 (and counting im sure) of contridiction
Both your points are valid but spirteh give it a rest, someone is trying to explain their thoughts and you keep butting in.

[sprite]

give it a rest, someone is trying to explain their thoughts and you keep butting in.

I've posted 3 times (4 now) in this thread and all except the first were in response to your/scar's comments. How do I "keep butting in" on this thread?

As for all 2138 of my posts being contradiction, I'll just leave that one alone because its selfevidently untrue

Oh, is this me correcting someone too?

Edit: The invitation to PM me about this also goes for you Kye My comment about cluttering the boards probably should have said "clutter this thread", I'm sorry

[marct]

Not trying to advocate a side specifically, just offering some food for thought.

Outposts have little to no "upkeep" requirements. In times of peace they can be handily ignored as they churn out the goods.

So what effort does the owning guild need to put in to hold it? They need to defend it if it is attacked.

If outpostless Homin A shows up to help in an OP defense, have they done any less than the owning guild members to maintain that outpost? Do they deserve any less of the rewards because they are in a different guild?

What of an outpost that has never been attacked? Do the two hours of fighting bandits when they were released entitle the owning guild to all resources provided for eternity, only giving out to others for favors or trade?

Of any Outpost that had a holder and had an attack, the attacker has stuck their neck out, and prepared for a proper forum and region chat raping about it.

The most not fun part of outposts. I would be happy if we never talked about them on the forums again, and kept it all in game.

Noin.

[yaten]

Well then what's wrong with my opinion that it is invalid?

Sxar posted that the reason Nexus don't appear to some people to be "actively karavan" is because they have mostly EU members. I posted the names of two other guilds that are predominantly EU based and obviously Karavan to people such as Spiff and DT.

If you wanna continue this, take it to a PM pls, don't wanna clutter the boards any more

Sometimes taking something to PM is reasonable. Given that the point being argued is relevant, taking it to PM would effectively give you the last word on something the others still don't agree on.

Oh, and as for expressing opinions, I think it's held to a slightly higher standard when you're contradicting somebody's non-argumentative statement.

[varelse]

Nexus has done all those things you mention, DT. They might not play karavan's faction like OmegaV or Melinoe, and might not shout as much about it, but they are karavan for sure.

One thing that might help in the misunderstanding is that Nexus is (mostly?) a European guild, and OmegaV and Melinoe are US guilds, meaning that they dont meet that much on weekdays.

I agree with sx4rlet on this one.

I remember the Nexus (and especially pappasmurf) from the battles in the old lands - they fought hard for the Karavan side and to protect the diggers for Jena's temples.

Not every European (or North American) is able to play in their continent's 'off times'. Most of us on both sides of ocean are constrained by work, school and family, to a typical login time of around 6 pm-11 pm (rough estimate) on weekdays. But, if you play 16 hours on a weekend day (something I often did in EP 2) then you get to meet everyone usually =)

Some north american karavan made the same claim about LoA but I also saw them drive the kami forces back from the central digging spots in each of the old lands, often when no one else could quite get it together on the karavan side to accomplish this.

Just because you don't see someone when you are logged in, doesn't mean they weren't there when you were at work, in bed, or eating your breakfast still =P

[boinged]

Back on topic (and all OOC):

So what effort does the owning guild need to put in to hold it?

In terms of game mechanics not much although it would make sense for an outpost owning guild to maintain or increase member count. It would also be sensible for them to level the combat skills that might be required one day to keep it.

In terms of the social side of things then a lot has to be done. The guild needs to stay friends with their allies (official and otherwise). They need to be wary of which other outpost battles to get involved in. Trading these 'free' crystals and mats is a job in itself. Since most outpost have now become FvF instead of GvG, a lot of politics on the boards needs to be dealt with. Some like this, some don't, some OP-owning guilds don't even post.

A lot of this last kind of work is done to prevent battles ever taking place (I think Sun-Tzu had a thing to say about that ). People could just as easily not bother with this and the 'work' would become more obvious - a string of battles. That just shows something about the community, I feel.

Finally I think it would be wrong if outposts did require more work. There has to be some reason for trying to take it, some reason to fuel the conflict (political or not). At some point it's going to be easier to dig, say 500 mats per day, to trade for a x999 crystal stack per day and forget about all the 'hassles'.

[raven456]

First of I realise I what I say might not matter to most people, after all my guild is not very well known and we are all newbies.

But I still think I should be heard on this matter. It has not passed my guild that we might want to own a OP one day, but as a guild of players all below 110 *so far* we have very little chance if this. The real problem is almost one that follows that evil patten of the rich getting richer. I'll explain: Now I use my guild as a example only (read below as to what i mean), we as low lvl players just can't challange a larger guild with many members well above us in lvls. But the only real way for us to "catch" up to these guilds are via crystals... the very same ones they are able to mine each and every day. Now this means to get these crystals we would need to take an OP, but wait.. to get a OP we need to be higher lvl.. but wait.. we just can't lvl them fast enough... will take months b4 we can even think about putting together a force that might have a small chance of taking a OP.

So as you can see the higher guilds just get higher faster and better, while the lower guilds are just left behind. I personally don't have a problem with this, I have never asked for free crystals from anyone.. and I think I only offered to buy some from TW (who were unable to at the time, which i totally understand Rushin ) but my point is, I can see why others are angry, I mean the rich getting richer might be ok in the Real World.. but on atys? I dunno about you. But I thought we had a different community than that? I might be mistaking though.

My guild has no "real" allies as such.. we are not Kami yet nor Kara, altho we plan to be Kami at some point. The fact is, we are willing to fight for a OP (when we are finially ready) but unless it's a real GvG fight.. we have no chance. I mean we don't expect to win the fight even if it's a GvG but it would be nice to actually have a chance.

We have been lucky i should say.. some of our members have been given crystals but kind homins, and even kindle has given us some stacks of q50 crystals for our really new members (thx alot kindle) but to be honest it's not really enough.

Now you might say.. what are you offering.. well again i have not asked anyone for crystals apart from TW and then well we only had dappers to offer.. lets face it..we are a low guild.. best mats we can pull now is q80 i believe (with a few guys getting q60 currently) and no exc or suprem mats.. so we don't have much to offer.. and yet.. are we not allowed to trade too? because dappers are not seen as "tradable" goods as of late.
So what should a guild like mine do?

We could go and make alliances.. but for the most part it would be one way.. they would be helping us much more than we could help them (as hard as we might try) so the benefits for them is not great.. and I don't want my guild to be the one that takes and not gives... so until we are as strong.. we can't alline ourselves with anyone. Leaving us in the middle.. but still able to fight for a OP if it's only GvG *but this doesn't happen :/ *

All I'm going to say at the end is... don't worry we the Fist are not after people to get things from.. I'm just saying i can see the reasons for anger from some people.. and just wanted to point out the view we have too.

I think if the battles were more GvG and the OPs did change hands now and again... i would have more faith in the system.. and more poeple would be happy i think.

Anyway just my thoughts on the subject


/enable flame shield

Raven™

[philu]

I would be happy if we never talked about them on the forums again, and kept it all in game.

I couldn't agree more. Same old arguments over and over again. Can't you guys just give it a rest? It's getting depressing.

This thread has degenerated into another OP flame war, just like all the rest. I have to say this thread is a perfect example of trolling at its worst. Great example of our "mature community" - NOT!

[rushin]

kinda wandering off tangent a bit:

re the crystals; the situation has changed now RavenZahadoom, come chat to me

about you never being in a postion to challenge for an outpost, i agree what you are saying about the strong getting stronger but with the current outpost climate its not soley about the how strong you are but who you know.

Some homins view outposts as an end-game, only to be contested by older/stronger guilds/players I'd argue against that - I think that you have as much right as anyone to hold an outpost, if you can gather allies then go for it - after all what do you have to lose? The benefits of the lv50/100 outposts are more valuable to lower level players than higher so why shouldn't a guild of such standing own one

And as to the rest of this thread - it's got a bit silly hasnt it, i think the idea is that we conquer op's ingame not on the forums, maybe its worth a try

[boinged]

The fact is, we are willing to fight for a OP (when we are finially ready) but unless it's a real GvG fight.. we have no chance. I mean we don't expect to win the fight even if it's a GvG but it would be nice to actually have a chance.

Here are a few ideas:

Pick your target carefully, find out who their friends and enemies are, make it very clear in-game and on the forums that this isn't about faction, request a GvG battle, work to get your own-allies to counter theirs (AvA I guess), limit yourself to attacking outposts owned by the same faction (or go Neutral ), trade for the crystals instead, suggest a guild merger, offer to buy the outpost outright, keep attacking them until they accept your terms (not griefing though), declare proper war and don't rez/always kill them in PvP zones, get big and powerful enough to defeat them and their allies, or just accept the FvF way and use that to your advantage.

There are many ways to achieve your goal and even if you never even get one, the work (i.e. gameplay) involved should keep your guild entertained and give it a purpose.

Just don't attack our outpost please