daggers SUCK ? what am i doing wrong ?

[ahremark]

There seems to be something strange about daggers.

I used a couple of Q17 daggers for a long time, at level 35 i crafted a new pair of Q35 that were about the same speed but with more damage.
The strange thing is that the old Q17 daggers actually outperformed the Q35 ones regardless of wich attacks i used (Both high and low level actions).
Later i crafted a pair of Q40 daggers, again same speed, more damage and that pair worked wonderfully (The damage output was comparable to that of other weapons).
My daggers also seemed to become a lot more efficient when i was grouped for some reason, but i could be imagining things.

Maybe daggers are bugged or affected by some 'hidden' material stat heh.
I'm sticking with my daggers though, i've always preferred doing things the hard way, or maybe i'm just stubborn.

[suka1]

What stamina use? You only burn stamina when you cycle an action which isnt really necessary with daggers as the hit rate > accuracy needs, missing a hit with a dagger is less noticeable than with a pike, how much damage between 2 pike hits and a salvo of dagger damage? What about your defense using a pike vs daggers... there's more than just stamina use, if you're using increased damage with daggers, you're doing something wrong.

The damage from 2 pike hits is considerably more than the same timed element for daggers, especially if you as you say dont use Inc Dmg.

Defense is based upon the weapon you are holding, its dodge and parry rating and the mats used to make it up. Im not getting into that issue here though!

You state that using daggers with Inc Dmg is wrong yet you dont back it up so its your own opinion. I take on board what you say about hit rate and accuracy but what does that leave? At the levels mentioned attack after action, ignore armour and Inc Dmg are the obvious choices.

Dont assume you know better than other people unless you have facts to back it up.

[t41nt3d]

I've duel wielded from the beggining and to tell the truth I too had problems killing more than 1 or 2 mobs without running out of stamina, However I figured that perhaps thats the way the game was as you only get 1 resource per harvest and 1 item per crafting. It all kinda mixed together that way.

[jokque]

well being able to kill 1 mob would be fine, but being able to kill just 3 mobs before i ran out of stamina, mobs which i could solo at lvl 30 (lvl 50 now) thats just redicilous
oh and i wasnt even using heavy armor, so they would have killed me if i didnt use my self heal, lol

[hivewasp]

The damage from 2 pike hits is considerably more than the same timed element for daggers, especially if you as you say dont use Inc Dmg.

In my first answer to this thread:

"I don't think it's the best damage combo in the game; many people can out damage you; but it's constant and works relatively safely"

So yes 2 pike hits may be more damaging if they both hit... but slow weapons rely on heavy damage to compensate for misses. Fast weapons rely on speed.

Defense is based upon the weapon you are holding, its dodge and parry rating and the mats used to make it up. Im not getting into that issue here though!

You're holding 2 vs 1... if I understand your reasoning, a shield would be completely useless as they don't parry a thing but their bonus comes into play, same for off hand daggers.

You state that using daggers with Inc Dmg is wrong yet you dont back it up so its your own opinion.

Using increased damage with daggers is just a waste of stamina vs placing increased damage on a credit based on dodge and using it when it cycles, which is quite often. The only time I'd use the stamina on an action would be to get past the armor of some mobs, or switch to a spear/pike which are also based on piercing and thus can benefit for roughly the same actions.

Dont assume you know better than other people unless you have facts to back it up.

What facts did you provide? You started your first post with IMO... as for the logics behind them using that much stamina: what would be harder IRL; lifting a big mace every once in a while and drop it on someone's head... or swinging your arms like a madman, jumping, swirling and lunging?

I don't think daggers are all out assault weapons, but more of a reactive fighting style spotting and exploiting openings in an opponent's defense: attack after dodge/parry.

[hivewasp]

Perhaps thats the way the game was as you only get 1 resource per harvest

Odd... I get four using 45s timed sources, aggressive rate and aggressive speed. I must have missed something

[Nirvy]

I've duel wielded from the beggining and to tell the truth I too had problems killing more than 1 or 2 mobs without running out of stamina, However I figured that perhaps thats the way the game was as you only get 1 resource per harvest and 1 item per crafting. It all kinda mixed together that way.

If you buy the right upgrades from the Harvest Trainer you can harvest 5 or 6 resources per forage pretty easily.

Look to buying agressive speed, and rate etc.

Im only a LvL 80 Harvester, but even i can get 4 per forage

[suka1]

"What facts did you provide? You started your first post with IMO... as for the logics behind them using that much stamina: what would be harder IRL; lifting a big mace every once in a while and drop it on someone's head... or swinging your arms like a madman, jumping, swirling and lunging? "

Well I didnt acuse anyone of doing it wrong for a start. That insinuates that you know better whilst I have simply given my findings on the issue in the hope that someone could provide a definitive.

The latter half of your paragraph is too glib, ask yourself again what is more demanding between swinging a big mace compared to swinging daggers? Melee animations that dont do anything else than entertain aside you know the answer to that.

All you've really done is provide what you think is the best attack actions to use with daggers and confirm what we all knew.....Daggers are fast!

I dont want to get into a flaming fest but you didnt enter the thread with anything constructive until I raised the issue with you.

[hivewasp]

ask yourself again what is more demanding between swinging a big mace compared to swinging daggers? Melee animations that dont do anything else than entertain aside you know the answer to that.

Does it cost anything in stamina to swing the daggers? no. It does when you cycle actions which are a representation of working all your energy towards hitting the target; at 50 hits per minute, per arm... that's quite a lot of calories that would go bye bye in the real world. But then I suppose you'd say that ping pong or squash takes less energy than tennis per minute.

I dont want to get into a flaming fest but you didnt enter the thread with anything constructive until I raised the issue with you.

My post was in reaction to your answer to wayas which could be interpreted as "I know what the thread is about and you don't" as well, I never intended to flame anyone and no one told you that your answer was not wanted because you didnt cover the damage issue that was in jokque's 1st and 3rd posts.

2 issues were raised:
- damage "and not only that, but the damage of the daggers SUCKS, doing 18 dmg with ID5 and the weapons themselves are 38-48", to which Wayas and myself answered,
- stamina use to which you answered, I don't see an answer from you on the damage part

Oh well; done with this silly argument; who cares about who started what... answers were provided, and the thread starter can decide if they are valid or not by himself

[jokque]

Well i honestly dont feel like we got any way here



Yes, daggers are fast, and yes they use stamina when you use attacks other than the standard bland and boring melee attack you get at lvl 0 (but so does ALL other weapons as well) Using stamina/hp shouldnt be reserved for only the big and slow hitting weapons

And using special attacks/abilities/perk actions/whatever name different MMORPGs have for attacks that is not just your standard swinging of a weapon is most of the fun. Nothing like finally getting to lvl 30 in diablo 2 and getting your top skill for example

You said yourself that you only use the standard melee attack, do you really think that is fun ? Yes theres not that many special attacks in this game (theres like 2...yay...) but using ID at least gives some variety, but i cant use ID with the daggers

It makes no sense that wielding a q50 pike i can do more dmg (about 25-35% more id say from the quick testing i did) than q70 daggers, but i can do that over extended periods of time, not just ~20 hits (which again, is hardly any dmg since its daggers we are talking about)

We all find different things interesting, some care only about the amount of damage they do, some find joy in being different no matter how gimped they are, etc, and i prefer to be the best i can for my team. I chose daggers because most people use a pike so i wanted to be a bit different, but im not gonna sacrifice a huge amount of my dmg just to be different, that would make me useless to teams im in and teaming is imho what MMORPGs are all about. If you dont team and interact with others you might as well play a singleplayer RPG (i know my standing on that is kinda controversial, but i honestly dont see why someone would solo their entire gametime in a mmorpg, sry if i offend anyone )