OP rewards / AA's thread in the "Guilds" section

[brithlem]

Simple fact is, getting 14,000 base-quality crystals per day, there is no excuse not to share. As far as I know there is no guild so large and so active that they would use all those crystals themselves every day.

I couldn't disagree with this more. People are constantly bickering about people not sharing what they have to offer with others. However... I don't see these outpostless people offering up anything in return. We, Infinity, have given away plenty of crystals, OP mats, flowers as a means of thanking people that have been selfless with regards to our members. AP for one, is perhaps the most selfless, helpful guild on server... the irony of that is they happen to have 2 outposts and OP rewards for their help means less to them than other OP-less guilds.


If you truly want some outpost: materials / crystals / flowers then:
-Contact guilds with outposts... see what you can offer them.. and no... dappers does not constitute effort to any established / self-sufficient Guild.
-If you see members of a wealthy guild running around... say "hi" so when you do ask for things later... they know who you are.
-Make the first effort. You'd be amazed how far just helping a downed character, or a guild "noobie" will get you in terms of thanks for those with spare.

Some examples:
-AP helped us take both of our outposts... whenever we have spare OP mats... it goes to them... no debate... no thinking. We know we owe them.
-Guardians of the Lost. Great guild designed and setup as a new player Zorai help guild... no debate. One of the greatest unknown guilds in Atys today. Helping keep a low server population just a tidgy bit higher.

Both of these guilds get any help off of us we can offer... spare OP mats... any help treking... 9 of us getting DP to rez just one of them. These are 2 class act guilds that daily make our lives better. Until other guilds / individuals can rival that... they will get the help and not others.


I for one have not been contacted by any of the guilds here that are complainging about people not sharing. Not so much as a peep. I'm of the mind that people would rather complain than put forth the effort they are complainging about others not making. I mean... are the guilds in the money supposed to seek out others to give away the fruits of their efforts to? Do we get a tax break for this? Until someone puts forth the effort to try to come to some mutually beneficial scenario... things will stay exactly the same as they are right now.


Finally... have "nothing" to offer? heal out of team... dig grind mats... blind / stun out of team... go out of your way to give someone a rez... dig someone else's nodes... trek a noob... find *some* way of making yourself seem worth giving up 99,900 XP (bonus XP from 1 stack of crystals). I don't see anyone banging down my door to do any of these things for me... why should I bang down someone's door to hand them almost 100K bonus XP that could instead be used to further my guild of players that *do* do those things for me and for each other? XP is time... and if people are unwilling to share their time with me / us... there's no way in hell I share my time with you.

That is my challenge to all complainging about not sharing... answer that last question with some objective benefit for the people giving and not the people recieving and then we've hit the first steps toward creating this utopian, flower-child, nobody-goes-hungry scenario we're flirting around in this thread.

Bluntly,

[varelse]

I agree with every word you wrote in this post, and hope that your words will begin the process of shaking some people out of their sense of entitlement. No one in the world, not this world or the RL world, is entitled to any reward they did not in some way earn.

On the other hand, outposts *were* designed to be contested. They require a concerted diplomatic effort from a strong group to take and to hold. My feeling is that much of the talk about lack of sharing is a buildup to do exactly that - declare war on a coveted piece of the Atys landscape.

The fact is, no one really wants to step up and play the evil conqueror role, so they're forced to try to find some RP justification for challenging an established outpost. It's ironic, but the fact that we are such a friendly, helpful, tight-knit and small community means we're also stagnating a bit. In a larger population, more guilds would be forming more complex alliances rather than sticking strictly to faction or race alignment, and we'd see more challenges on the level of Guild vs Guild rather than "evil faction alliance attacks innocent outpost holder". Right now, anyone who challenges is instantly labeled as a bad guy and gets all sorts of rejection from the community at large.

I expect if the population continues to grow we'll be pushed out of our current stasis and the real fun will begin.

[richky]

....I expect if the population continues to grow we'll be pushed out of our current stasis and the real fun will begin.

Possible, but unlikely. New players are not likely to form new guilds that will be in a position to contest for outpost ownership. For the most part they will take a quick look around, find the guild that will bring them the greatest benefit (i.e. large guilds that currently own outposts) and thus will reinforce the status quo.

I'm curious to see what the effect of spires will be on the outpost situation though. If, as I understand, spire ownership gives a pvp bonus to the owning faction then this may shift the balance in some circumstances. It's not clear though whether the spire bonuses will affect outpost battles. The description says they only affect pvp flagged players, whereas the outpost pvp is not related to the pvp flag.

[carrie]

*Lathaniel posting from Carrie's PC*

I agree totally with both of you there. I have never used an XP crystal myself, I think if I started doing that the little left to achieve (excluding PvP goals) in this game would come all too quickly, and so I've turned them down every time they've been offered. However, were that not the case, and if OOC still didn't have an outpost, I would expect to lend my services in return for the crystals, or live without them. I certainly wouldn't dream of asking for XP crystals (or anything else for that matter) for nothing, or complaining that guilds were not sharing "enough" of their crystals.

I also agree that guilds have been finding a RP reason to attack an outpost in order to make themselves look like they're doing a favour for a race or faction (or even all homins), rather than just being honest that they want one themselves. However, this approach so far seems to have been less well-received than those that have just gone ahead with their intentions laid bare and attacked outposts.

[bgraz]

I have to fully agree with everything you say Brithlem. Infact that has to be the most intelligent well thought out post I've read in some time.

I'll admit that I complained some when OP first came out, but at the time they were new and the owning guilds i'm sure had a hard time trading with some just for the fact that what they were getting was new to them as well. Now that the "newness" of them is wearing some i'm finding that trading OP rewards is becoming a very plesant thing. Now when i offer what i can, I'm accually getting more than expected in return, and its very greatly appreciated.

You are comletely right though in your point that if instead of complaining and feeling likre they're owed somthing, Homins should offer what they do have (skills or just helping a noob to be nice)..even mabey without asking for somthing in return, because like you say, and i've even witnessed it first hand, rewards can come to those who aren't greedy themselves

[dhuberma]

The fact is, no one really wants to step up and play the evil conqueror role, so they're forced to try to find some RP justification for challenging an established outpost. It's ironic, but the fact that we are such a friendly, helpful, tight-knit and small community means we're also stagnating a bit. In a larger population, more guilds would be forming more complex alliances rather than sticking strictly to faction or race alignment, and we'd see more challenges on the level of Guild vs Guild rather than "evil faction alliance attacks innocent outpost holder". Right now, anyone who challenges is instantly labeled as a bad guy and gets all sorts of rejection from the community at large.

The above characterization of the players behind the characters on Arispotle is the main contributor to my enjoyment of this game. Having played MMORPGs since 1999, it's so refreshing (and personally rewarding) to play in an environment where disputes are the exception, not the rule. I love the Arispotle community. I'd hate to see it 'devolve' into "just another MMO community" with all its pettiness, ugliness, and general discord.

Best regards,

[mtsmith]

As much as I usually enjoy playing the other side of any argument in which Brithlem involves himself, I have to say that in this matter he really hits the nail on the head. We have been VERY generous, often times giving/trading more than we use internally and yet the only folks who have actually spoken with me personally were Karavan and in constant communication with all of us.

I also have never once heard a request from a neutral Tryker guild for help with outpost items. I saw in another post that a certain neutral Tryker guild had requested some help, but if that's true why the heck didn't they come to the longest standing Tryker in OmegaV? It's not like I ever gave anybody any reason to believe that I wouldn't help them as long as they are not Kami or Kami sympathizers. If you want help, at least try to learn a little about those from whom you are requesting favors.

OmegaV would help out a neutral guild in a heartbeat, so long as they were not involved in helping the opposite faction and they were friendly toward us. The same, obviously, goes for Karavan, though somewhat moreso. We have given crystals, flowers, picks, etc. on multiple occassions with nothing asked in return.

I guess the point is that you shouldn't be afraid to ask for help, but try getting to know the people you are asking before getting angry when you are turned down.

[aude03]

I don't know why, but i think this post is for us...

I saw in another post that a certain neutral Tryker guild had requested some help, but if that's true why the heck didn't they come to the longest standing Tryker in OmegaV? It's not like I ever gave anybody any reason to believe that I wouldn't help them as long as they are not Kami or Kami sympathizers. If you want help, at least try to learn a little about those from whom you are requesting favors.

I guess the point is that you shouldn't be afraid to ask for help, but try getting to know the people you are asking before getting angry when you are turned down.

But if this post is for Nexus guild, you made a mistake :

- we are a Karavan guild (if one day you come to your native land, look at the littles tags floating over our heads, or just have a look at the guilds list)

Concerning that we didnt try to learn more from you...we didnt want to marry you ! That was just a request from a Kara guild to an other Kara guild for an OP mats trade

And yes we are a little angry, not because we have been turned down (as i said, no answer for our request), just because we have the feeling to have been snubed.


PS : and please, stop insinuate this world is full of liars

[danolt]

I totally agree with you, Brithlem.

I have never advocated pressuring guilds into sharing/trading outpost goods. I realize I have the poster child for asset relocation in my guild. This crusade of free sharing is not a goal of AA it is a personal goal of an individual.

The economics of those without outposts is simple. If we do not have any chance to benefit from a landowner, then that outpost is a target. Once a target is identified a risk/reward scenario is developed. You can bet I am always looking, waiting to roll the dice.

Pero

[tylarth]

A view from the otherside of the coin, the OP less guilds. Many if not perhaps all OP less guild have taken part in OP battles supporting faction or friends, as such have done pretty much a similar effort in time spent in OP conquering. However they do not get a steady and regular supply of automatic OP goods. Most OP trade is done between OP owners is for other OP items so automatic spawned items for automatic spawned items. For those without a supply of these the currency is mats (and occasionally given free), in essence automatic spawned items for hard dug mats, as most find dapper worthless. The feeling of the OP-less is very much that of a 2nd class homin by circumstance and initial opportunity. Were i ever to own an OP i'd feel guilty at making an OP-less player pay for something i would get for free.