Outposts, a few weeks later...

[iphdrunk]

Hello ,

So here I am again, poking the community (at least those who read the forums) and buggering with questions. This time, I was discussing with a few fellow diggers and we started to talk about the core feature of Chapter 3, the Outposts. It is hard to give an opinion about a feature without having given the game a bit of time to see how it goes. Today, after several weeks of OPs live, I'd like to know what you think about them. Some questions that come to mind:

* Are the current outposts enough? Should there be more or less outposts?

* What about the attck and defense periods? Should there be a feature like "surprise attack"?

* What would you implement to improve them, what things are not that great (storage, costs, ?)

Some answers have already been given in the past, like allowing new means to conquer an outpost, etc.

Personally, here's my view (subjective, of course)

- The role of crafters and foragers is completely missing from the conquer/lose aspect of Outpost. They are the funding bags, and that's it. I think it could be reasonable to add some elements, like the towers we are used to, and allow foragers and crafters to take an active part by building them. Special sources could pop nearby, and special mission mats could be used to build towers, reusing the temple scenario, maybe a bit improved.

- I wonder how things would have gone if the outposts were set up by nevrax more in a GvG setting rather than a FvF setting. I may be wrong, but with the FvF setting, the outposts seem to be pretty static. Taking ownership of an q250 outpost may be a server wide effort.

- With the status quo (which apparently is the same in Aniro too) this game feature loses a bit its purpose. I must admit, when outposts were announced, I was expecting a bit more dynamics. With a GvG scenario, mid sized guilds could gather to defend an OP from a large one, with FvF it seems less likely. Nevertheless GvG could have some drawbacks too: today, Guild A, zora, attacks guild's B OP, also Zora. Tomorrow, there's a FvF event, friends again http://www.ryzom.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

- I don't know if there are too many OPs or too few. I think I'm not wrong when I say that the most large guilds in our instance (Arispotle) have a purple outpost. What's the benefit for a guild already owning an outpost of getting a second one? With more outposts, guilds could manage several at a time. With less, when 4 of the 8 aforementioned guilds were opless, maybe it wouldn't be so static.

And different, but related, seems to be the Spires risk-minigame. Seen what the outposts have brought -- imho OPs are quite a disappointment for me, but that's another matter -- do we risk reaching another permanent regime with spires? e.g. void is Kami controoled, GoC is Kara etc?

Looking forward to your opinions,

[petej]

- The role of crafters and foragers is completely missing from the conquer/lose aspect of Outpost. They are the funding bags, and that's it. I think it could be reasonable to add some elements, like the towers we are used to, and allow foragers and crafters to take an active part by building them. Special sources could pop nearby, and special mission mats could be used to build towers, reusing the temple scenario, maybe a bit improved.

Shame on you Ani -you forgot equipping the guards

Id like to see those guards patroll the perimeter of the OP too so Outposts had some "life" and werent just static objects (the Guards would just respawn without cost if killed whilst on patrol which ofc would be suspended prior to an attack/defence)

Has anyone actualy taken an Outpost by force ?

[iphdrunk]

Shame on you Ani -you forgot equipping the guards

Do'h !! * runs away and hides.. how could I, how could I ? *

[ghyselsj]

Has anyone actualy taken an Outpost by force ?

Yep, OV took Whirling Stronghold in Loria from Band of Hawks a few weeks ago.

[petej]

Yep, OV took Whirling Stronghold in Loria from Band of Hawks a few weeks ago.

That wasnt actualy contested tho was it ? ,I thought the Hawks had given up n quit after all the trouble/bad feeling caused by AA

[akm72]

That wasnt actualy contested tho was it ? ,I thought the Hawks had given up n quit after all the trouble/bad feeling caused by AA

They fought in the first attacking phase, but gave up before the defence phase.

[oldmess]

Yep, OV took Whirling Stronghold in Loria from Band of Hawks a few weeks ago.

Sadly, I think your exception may actually end up proving the original point. Defense has a very strong advantage over offense, IMO. Any guild worthy of holding an OP, can. (by worthy, I don't just mean their strength, but their ability to call forth allies.)

@Nevrax - I agree that rolling out a few more available OP's (including some in the roots maybe) could happen any time now. If Nevrax has any additional features ready for OP's, rolling the new feature out at the same time they activate a few new ones would be perfect.

I also hope Nevrax has been watching and will use the lessons learned from OP's when balancing the spires or the original poster's fear of a permanent situation where Karavaneers never see the jungle/desert again and Kamists never see the lakelands/forest again could come true.

[ghyselsj]

I'm mainly bothered by the fact you need the help of an entire faction to take/defend an outpost, and the fact the outpost era got turned into a continuation of the old lands. It was supposed to be GvG, but as it is now, it's just more FvF, with the main politics being, lets distribute the OPs among our faction and call it a day. The OPs were supposed to bring some conflicts between guild (real ones or just for fun), not "all the matis/tryker OPs are karavan now, we're done here" (not directed at karavan specifically, i've noticed kami OPs arent changing hands either).

What I'm saying is, unless you have all the guilds in your faction behind you and attack an OP of the opposing faction, there's not even the slightest sparkle of hope you can get an OP now, cause as soon as you gather some allies to help you (or do it on your own if your guild is big enough) and actually declare attack, you get a whole faction against you, be it opposite or equal to the faction you are.

And why? because everyone wants crystals more than having some battles to distract from the everyday grind. I don't care about crystals anymore, I'd attack an OP just for the fun of it, and if I don't manage to get it or keep it, well, at least I'd have had some fun trying.

If you have any reason other than crystals as to why guilds are so obsessed with keeping their outposts, I'd sure like to hear it. The OP mats are nice, but they're the same thing as event items or boss armors in my opinion... a nice bonus. The flowers may be fun too, but they're only bonuses as well... not something you insist on using all of the time, like crystals are to some.

My 2 dappers.

[kostika]

If you have any reason other than crystals as to why guilds are so obsessed with keeping their outposts, I'd sure like to hear it. The OP mats are nice, but they're the same thing as event items or boss armors in my opinion... a nice bonus. The flowers may be fun too, but they're only bonuses as well... not something you insist on using all of the time, like crystals are to some.

My personal reason for wanting to have an outpost is purely selfish. I really enjoy all the additional interaction I have because of it. In the end I don't really care about what the op produces, but because of it I've made more friends since they came out than I thought possible. But like I said, that's my selfish reason for liking having one. I don't know that others have seen the kind of interaction I see. It keeps me busy and gives me more purpose. Of course the down side of this is that I barely get to lvl my skills these days cause I'm so busy, but I don't mind most of the time.

I do think we really need more of them though. 28 jsut aren't enough. And the fact that they have become FvF and not GvG is another thing I dislike about them. But that I think is due to players, not Nevrax.

Overall I don't know if I think they are a god or bad thing. I'd certainly miss the amount of RP and interaction I garner from having one. But having become FvF and not GvG, I don't know if that's good really or not.

[iphdrunk]

And the fact that they have become FvF and not GvG is another thing I dislike about them. But that I think is due to players, not Nevrax.

Agreed, but there's more factors to it, (e.g. the text at the load screen seems to state the FvF setting) or the fact that they came up right after Ep2, etc. That said, gameplay wise nothing prevents them from being GvG. Up to the players