Whats in a Word?

[katriell]

wtf

Funny thing about abbreviations like that, if someone finds it offensive, you can say you meant something like "what the food."

[yaten]

Funny thing about abbreviations like that, if someone finds it offensive, you can say you meant something like "what the food."

I'd probably just use "!?" or something ... and as for filters, they can be fairly moronic. A month and a bit ago, in a certain game you'd be wishing people a merry #@$%@#mas.

[sk8rss]

Yeah, there doesn't appear to be a need for filters. Aside from a select few the Ryzom community seemz mature enough to censor itself as it has so far.

[Lukati]

Haha, Seti... That's funny, considering you have to wear headphones when I'm in vent. Lot's of love you stinky b*.

My two cents. I personally think it's silly that there are "swear" words. The only reason that they're swears is because they offend people for some reason. It's silly tradition that makes them. I'm not trying to invalidate peoples' concerns regarding the issue, I think it's fine if you don't want to hear it because it offends you, just the fact that it does (not really a fault of the offended) is kinda silly. (Again, to keep people from hating me more than they do sometimes I'm not trying to put down people who are offended).

Yea, I'm gonna have to say I agree on that. The existence of a concept like "vulgarity" is definitely perpetuated by society. I'm not really sure if anyone knows just why words are deemed offensive, and others are not. If you ask me, which I'm sure hardly anyone is, I think certain words were labeled vulgar to control emotions, because as you all know, someone legitimately cursing (not just for the sake of cursing) is usually displaying an incredible amount of emotion. But this really doesn't pertain to the issue at hand.

I curse quite liberally in RL, but have never felt a need to in a game. Despite my own beliefs, I can acknowledge the fact that there are other people with different views that are playing as well, and it is certainly easier for me to not curse than it would be for others to deal with cursing.

[lathan]

If you ask me, which I'm sure hardly anyone is, I think certain words were labeled vulgar to control emotions, because as you all know, someone legitimately cursing (not just for the sake of cursing) is usually displaying an incredible amount of emotion.

I think that part of the problem is that people using curse words most often are not using them legitimately as you described above. Almost every time I see someone using a curse word (particularly in a game) it's to try to add weight to an argument or to offend someone. So, although there are legitimate times when a curse word may be appropriate, most of the time they're just used negatively. I say negatively for both cases since someone cursing try to bring gravitas to their statements usually has the opposite effect on me, and I tend to be more dismissive of any argument they are putting forward. In effect, once they have to resort to cursing, they have lost an argument already.

Part of Tylin's original post made me think of another part of the problem with curse words. He said that they would be ok if they were not used to insult another homin. To attempt to illustrate the problem with this, I'll give you an abstract theoretical. Imagine the word "Stupid" was "made" a curse word. Now also imagine that that word was still allowed in Ryzom. As a consequence, when people get jumped by a kincher, or die due to lag, they would often exclaim "stupid kincher" or "stupid lag". I imagine that people would get used to hearing that in region chat, or in teamchat, guild.. in short, all over the game. Now imagine that someone comes and ganks me when I'm digging. What do you think would be the first word that came to mind to call them? My (somewhat convoluted) point is that if a word becomes used frequently in one context, its use becomes applied to others as well, sometimes quickly, sometimes more slowly, but it almost always happens eventually. So pretty soon you wouldn't only have to deal with reading the leet that gets into pvp battles, but all the attendant cursing as well.

Finally... I agree absolutely that anyone overusing curse words just sounds to me like they have a serious lack of vocabulary. I'm not talking about exclamations (I know if I walk into my bedpost or something equally dumb and painful you'll hear a string of expletives that would make a COM blush), but, in my opinion, there's no need to inject curse words into everyday speech. Therefore, I'm glad that the Ryzom community is (with a couple of obvious exceptions) mature and articulate enough to find other and (dare I say) better ways of expressing themselves.

[renster]

massive amounts depend on a word, if your intrested follow up breach of the peace, and section 5, now (as of january 1st 2006 ANY offensive is arrestable) used under SOCPA (Serious Organised Crime Police Act) 1985 i think.

as for swearing ingame, it spoils the flow.

[Lukati]

I think that part of the problem is that people using curse words most often are not using them legitimately as you described above. Almost every time I see someone using a curse word (particularly in a game) it's to try to add weight to an argument or to offend someone. So, although there are legitimate times when a curse word may be appropriate, most of the time they're just used negatively. I say negatively for both cases since someone cursing try to bring gravitas to their statements usually has the opposite effect on me, and I tend to be more dismissive of any argument they are putting forward. In effect, once they have to resort to cursing, they have lost an argument already.

Part of Tylin's original post made me think of another part of the problem with curse words. He said that they would be ok if they were not used to insult another homin. To attempt to illustrate the problem with this, I'll give you an abstract theoretical. Imagine the word "Stupid" was "made" a curse word. Now also imagine that that word was still allowed in Ryzom. As a consequence, when people get jumped by a kincher, or die due to lag, they would often exclaim "stupid kincher" or "stupid lag". I imagine that people would get used to hearing that in region chat, or in teamchat, guild.. in short, all over the game. Now imagine that someone comes and ganks me when I'm digging. What do you think would be the first word that came to mind to call them? My (somewhat convoluted) point is that if a word becomes used frequently in one context, its use becomes applied to others as well, sometimes quickly, sometimes more slowly, but it almost always happens eventually. So pretty soon you wouldn't only have to deal with reading the leet that gets into pvp battles, but all the attendant cursing as well.

Finally... I agree absolutely that anyone overusing curse words just sounds to me like they have a serious lack of vocabulary. I'm not talking about exclamations (I know if I walk into my bedpost or something equally dumb and painful you'll hear a string of expletives that would make a COM blush), but, in my opinion, there's no need to inject curse words into everyday speech. Therefore, I'm glad that the Ryzom community is (with a couple of obvious exceptions) mature and articulate enough to find other and (dare I say) better ways of expressing themselves.

I can't really see why you would dismiss an argument based on whether or not cursing is involved. With this statement you've made it abundantly clear that cursing offends you, and while you can speculate that someone may be using curse words for whatever purpose, I can tell you that I use curse words in many arguments because I don't believe in the concept of vulgarity (or the idea of offending someone, either), as these are all just words made up of the same letters as any other words. However, I can't speak for anyone else, and I do admit that many people don't know how to use many words properly, which is why I would agree with a strong stance against cursing in an environment such as Ryzom.

Believing that curse words are a form or lesser words only used by lesser people allows this fallacy to exist. You should let an argument invalidate itself, not the 'curse words' it might include.

[rellis]

he he im in the mood for a rant, rarely do i post on these forums.

curse words to me are not necessarily bad , they are not good either they are just like any other word to be used when the situation arises, Society however forces us to believe that using these words at certain times is Inappropriate. like you wouldnbt start f-in and blinding up at the altar or in an interview but it is perfectly acceptable around friends and family, well maybe more so the siblings.

Why they are offensive arrives from many areas whether they convey an image or allege or portray something about a certain person. For these reasons they are used to offend people and i agree this with many of yous that this is unacceptable. However we all use the odd expletive when telling a story to add weight or excitement and so to communicate in the best way possible.

As for one of the earlier posts, It is not against European law to offend people, under the ECHR 2003 we have the right to 'shock offend and disturb' and since this game under french law id say it ok, reasons we dont do it is because the friendly atmosphere and the presence of a younger players also a lot of it comes from the fact we have to type it, most people who curse often do so without thinking,

funny actually the only time someone cursed at me in game was by a character whom i would be sure was not over 15 yrs of age.

wel thats my 2 cents - Xycox- absentee HO of the Fluffy Bunnies

[lathan]

I can't really see why you would dismiss an argument based on whether or not cursing is involved. With this statement you've made it abundantly clear that cursing offends you, and while you can speculate that someone may be using curse words for whatever purpose, I can tell you that I use curse words in many arguments because I don't believe in the concept of vulgarity (or the idea of offending someone, either), as these are all just words made up of the same letters as any other words. However, I can't speak for anyone else, and I do admit that many people don't know how to use many words properly, which is why I would agree with a strong stance against cursing in an environment such as Ryzom.

Believing that curse words are a form or lesser words only used by lesser people allows this fallacy to exist. You should let an argument invalidate itself, not the 'curse words' it might include.

I didn't say that I would dismiss an argument if it contained swear words, I just said it tends to make me more dismissive. I haven't said cursing offends me anywhere in that post; as I said, I curse too. If you don't believe in the concept of vulgarity, at least pay some homage to the concept of correct grammar. Most often when someone swears to emphasise a point they make grammatical errors because they have to fit the word into a sentence, and so they do it in a way that just sounds right, as opposed to a way that is actually correct.

The other thing that makes me less receptive to such an argument is that the use of a curse word often takes the tone of a subjective, rather than factual argument. For example, just describing something with a curse word as opposed to saying that it is fundamentally flawed lends less credence to the argument imo.

And finally, a curse word's vulgarity is the very thing that lends it its ability to emphasise a point. I don't see how you can say you don't believe in vulgarity of curse words but then state that you use them for emphasis in arguments. I also don't believe (and never stated) that someone who curses is a lesser person, or that the words themselves are lesser. But they are used incorrectly often, and, personally, I like to see someone go the extra mile and put something more thoughtfully then to just throw in a curse to make themselves understood.

[brithlem]

Personally I think you all are nothing but a big sack of shoes... either that or "jydinguthorps" (pronounced: Jy ding u thorps)

yeah... I went there!