Ranged Fighting

[amitst]

oh btw gun graphics get better the higher level you are

if you dont know any high level gunners, watch a high level tribes gunner take out a mob, its sweeeet

I like the tryker gun wind effect, but i havent seen the others...

[grendel1]

Amitst: Well, I'm just shy of 150, and my electric bowrifle's muzzle flash is getting pretty impressive. Big damn ball of lightning about a meter across at the muzzle, and a fan of sparks about 4 meters long.

Perhaps they could implement the speed and range stats for ammo crafting, and the damage stats for range weapons? As it stands, all I need to worry about are speed and range on the gun, and damage on the ammo. Even a 10% variation (your 40 m/24 hit rifle varying from 36 to 44 m/21 to 26 hits) would make a diference, and make ammo crafting more than beckers/kachine, gulatch/koorin, dung/fung. As it stands, there's no good reason to use anything more than choice mats for ammo.

About the headtaps: A really good set of light armor can resist 20% of physical, and top-notch medium 40%. Seeing 17-18 or 35-36 is not at all surprising. Neither type has a helmet. Do the math

Petej: plants or herbies. Psykoplas in Grove of Umbra will get you to 160ish solo (look for the rattled waaay out in back), or you can kite bawaabs, armas, etcetera.

Norvic: yeah, launcher ammo's bulk is ridiculous. 30 bulk for the weapon, and 15 per shot? Plus the ammo tool and spare mats that are an absolute necessity? Of course, if we're gonna dream, how 'bout leaving bulk where it stands, and doubling the damage? That'd make it the biggest whack in the game (just barely) with the longest range, at the cost of being a severe pain to level and only being able to fire roughly 9 shots before having to stop to craft. Oh, and having the slowest attack rate, by a wide margin.

Don't believe crafting mid-fight's a pain? Any armor other than light messes with your quality, and then there's the switching out to the tool, setting up the mats in the craft window, running your craft actions, then switching back to the gun. Call it 20 seconds for 9 more shots. Meanwhile, you're just standing there, with a sign over your head saying "kill me!" Not bad if you're working levels PvE, as you can do it after a kill. Try it in the middle of an OP fight.

[norvic]

Don't believe crafting mid-fight's a pain? Any armor other than light messes with your quality, and then there's the switching out to the tool, setting up the mats in the craft window, running your craft actions, then switching back to the gun. Call it 20 seconds for 9 more shots. Meanwhile, you're just standing there, with a sign over your head saying "kill me!" Not bad if you're working levels PvE, as you can do it after a kill. Try it in the middle of an OP fight.[/QUOTE]

Yup i prefer med armour so i agree, have to strip naked to craft my next 9 shots, dodgy PvE, suicidal PvP, Not to mention jewels aswell not wishing unecessary wear n tear.

[hans1976]

@ Frydeswinde
you say ranged needs no change... how many people do you see using ranged?
thats enough said right there. if a skill tree isn't a viable and valuable contribution to a group then it probably needs help.
Though your opinion is helpful - such blatant trolling isnt welcome

addition: waltryck indeed knows what he is talking about it is simple enough to say that if there is a higher cost (continual ammo) there should be a greater reward (higher dps) than the competition(magic, melee)

if there was a restore ammo spell like restore sap, then noone would complain

*blinkblink* Ehm, a troll? Me? Lemme see, I have a strong opinion, tend to disagree with people and come with reasons why I disagree.
Hmmmm, what is a troll according to wikipedia?

In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on the Internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants.

So please keep your accusations to yourself.

I would like to react to: "How many people do you see use ranged?"
Not many, for it is a special skill that requires more then just grabbing a gun and go shooting stuff. Adding a spell to replenish ammo will only make it like elemental with guns for amps, thus rendering it useless.

Good solid reasons based on the useage of the skills make an internet discussion, accusations make trollposts...

[jlbloem]

Hrm, shouldnt have brought this up it seems.

[weedakos]

i think its safe to say ranged needs to be more player friendly...

yeah its special in its own way [linking craft/harvest/fight]

but its still a long way from being attractive to the middle player...which is bad imo..

it would be nice to see more ppl carrying ranged weapons around and for that to happen it needs serious tweaking...

perhaps if a basic, lame stats, type of ammo could be crafted like Sap Crystals
..so that ppl dont need to go harvesting/crafting unless they need the ''special'' ammo

[norvic]

Nooooooooooo to nano tech/instant magic ammo. Am all for making Ranged abit more effective and user freindly but intant ammo creation nah.

[soulsnatcher]

Hi guys

If we can keep this constructive it's a lot easier for me to present to Nevrax as solid ideas - which I will.

Thanks

Souls

[grendel1]

I'm with Norvic. We don't need instant ammo. Folks, it's a gun. It uses ammo. If you run out, you RUN OUT. When I was leveling range in real life (taking a .22 bolt-action to the local dump to plink cans, bottles, rats etc) I always brought at LEAST 3 boxes (150 rounds) with me. When hunting, my ammo load was 2 magazines (6 rounds) plus 12 more loose of .22-250. Guess what? I never ran out of ammo while hunting. Actually, I almost never broke into the loose rounds, but better to have 'em than find myself out, yes?

The easy way to handle the logistics of leveling: Turn one or more guildies into pack mules. I went out just last night with my bowrifle. 1700 rounds on my person, and another 1200 on my guildmate. That'll last a while. Even with me being the DD (she was working afflictions) it was enough for me to go from 145 to 148, and have 800 rounds left when things broke up. For launchers, get your "mule" to carry mats for you. 400 mats is 100 shots, and you can probably carry that between your own bit of space and your friend.

Launcher ammo needs a big improvement in effectiveness:bulk ratio, either making it smaller, making it hurt more, or some of both. Autolauncher might too, but I haven't played with it enough to say. Personally I'd like to see the damage come up more than I'd like to see the bulk go down, just from the "logic" of it being a bloody rocket launcher I'll pay the PITA cost of levelling it for a good whack that makes hostile nukers duck and spread out.

Bowrifle/bowpistol ammo needs a reason to exist, as it has none right now. Bigger ammo that's more mat intensive to craft, and yields no improvement over rifle/pistol ammo? Err, yeah... Perhaps giving bow-weapons a range kick (say, +5 for pistol, +10 for rifle) and maybe 15-20%ish more damage would make it worthwhile, assuming that bow weapons become non-compatible with vanilla guns. Think of bowweapons as the "heavy" version. As a RL example, compare a .22 rifle to a .30-06. Both will shoot as fast as you can work the bolt, but the .30-06 hurts more and reaches farther, at the cost of heavier and bulkier ammo, and a heavier and bulkier gun. Continuing that theme, the rifle (.22) is what you level on, and the bowrifle (.30-06) is what you kill with.

Also, I have to agree that the fact you don't see many folk using it says something. Amitst could have left the troll comment out, though Most people pick it up after they have something else at a nice high level. It DOES need tweaking.

As far as the craft aspect being a barrier, well, either you're a crafter or you aren't. I don't like digging much (I have 4 different combat skills that are higher than my dig, 2 of them by a LOT) but range actually gave me a reason to do it. And if you have a high dig skill from crafting something else, you can level range craft like crazy with all those mats you can pull. Once you get to a halfassed level, pumping out ten thousand rounds (2 full packers) isn't that much work.

[blaah]

Also, I have to agree that the fact you don't see many folk using it says something. Amitst could have left the troll comment out, though Most people pick it up after they have something else at a nice high level. It DOES need tweaking.

range only has disadvantages, thats why there isn't much range users

range needs AIM stanza that actually increases chance for critical hit. (new stanza, you use it with old ones, make it 0 cost, but put time delay on it, it should work 80% at the time to be useful)
hit rate should be 0 (zero) cost

better yet... make gun/weapon (like daggers and stuff weight matter how much hp/stam you use (keep small "base" cost)