Outposts are missing something...

[marct]

A reason for the owners to hang out around them, some regular guards that are around all of the time, ambience, etc.

1. I was thinking they could give a buff or something to the owners of the outpost while you are in the region of your outpost. Like the drill, the Owners could select the buff.

2. How about some guards/etc. Like every other tribe camp / etc. has. They would protect people based on there alignment. The guild could select which alignments, or fame levels to protect and which to not. The guards killing aggro that roams in to close, etc.

3. Some NPC healers that would heal a playing character. You could walk into the area and be healed by the NPC's. (Obviously not during the OP battle)

4. Some ambience besides the enormous drill. The guild symbol could fly on a flag above the OP. Something smacking of being alive and busy.

5. Make some reason for me to visit an outpost as an owner. I would think my fellow guildies should hang around there, but it does not seem to work like that. (maybe a stables, and a boost to your focus regen when inside the PvP area so that your guildies would craft there.)

6. Some reason for others to visit the Outpost.


Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the Outposts. I think they are great fun for everyone that can seperate an outpost battle from any other kinship or friendship you have developed.

Just wishing to not be fighting over something that appears to be deserted.


Noin.

[ajsuk]

lol, was having a scan through the A&Es *cough* I mean, Q&As, looking to see if there was anything like this already, so I shall post here..

As on so many occasions Noin, I have to agree, while I think we're all so happy and pleased that OPs have arrived, I feel they're a little.. dull..

They could do with a facelift, more features for normal guild members, options for the other construction pads and the bugs fixing ofcourse..

I'm not sure if Nevrax already have plans for those other pads but I've heard some really great ideas from Mekwashes(/carwashes) to Kizoar landing pads..

I've thought for ages that training creatures to become pets could be a real nice addition and my friend and guildmate Ellex came up with a great version of this idea.. we could add a training school to a pad.. where you could train the beasts.. ofcourse you'd have to catch them first and take them back, this could bring a whole new mean to the term hunting in Ryzom. Maybe a new tool could be a lasso!

[redcoat9]

we could add a training school to a pad.. where you could train the beasts.. ofcourse you'd have to catch them first and take them back, this could bring a whole new mean to the term hunting in Ryzom. Maybe a new tool could be a lasso!

been playing with the idea mysef.. new skill tree as well o_O

[calel]

Very good points Noin. So far I' ve been looking for reasons as to why I would travel to any Outpost, and when I by chance pass one on my travels there is little to no reason to take a breather and stick around for a moment.

Small forms of stables might be an idea; you won' t be able to buy new animals but perhaps small food bundles could be bought or you could leave your toubs in the care of the stable boy for a fee. (oh, and have some npc fine and put a big boulder attatched to the rear legs of wrongly parked animals )

Some odd vendors that sell goods made or acquired by the owning guild (preferably without 7-day resale) but I guess this would break up the scarsly suplied current markets even more.

Let us perhaps construct some of these additions and buildings ourselves; some really liked the gathering/building aspect of Episode 2. It would add to more immersion and another sense of accomplishment for those wanting to expand or customize.

Deffinatly npc' s, make the place more lively; oh, and give me a bar too where travelers can rest.... or make debts.

The only point I' m having a slightly different opinion about is the your first one Noin. It might clash with the upcomming bonusses granted by spires, so maybe it might be a better idea to limit such things to the immediate surroundings of the Outpost itself perhaps? (re-read it and I' m not sure if you actually meant the same thing now ) I'm indeed thinking of accelerated regeneration then, as other stat boosts would then seem meaningless. But on the other hand, most of these are already covered by consumables.

[oldmess]

Fantastic ideas one and all, Noin.

I've been thinking along similar lines. My own wish list would be:

1. An allies and enemies list. The owning guild leader and high officers should be able to list specific guilds as enemies and allies. All others are considered neutral to you.

2. A single NPC squad that would be selectable by the owners. I would have no objection to being required to pay them a reasonable stipend.

How they should behave toward other players is the big issue. Since OP's are not specifically faction based, but rather are guild based, I'd like to see them behave as follows:

a. Toward allies and neutrals, they should behave like any friendly tribe. i.e. not kill the players and attack any agro that gets too close. This would make certain OP's cost a bit more if they are placed in agro-dense areas like the Graveyard Research OP, but they could be optional. If you have no guards, then you lose none either.

b. NPC squads should be KoS to any on the enemies list. When an enemy wanders into the OP's range (same range as during OP attack phase), a popup should display warning them so they can avoid the OP as needed. The warning could list the name of the guild leader and HO's so they can be contacted for diplomacy reasons. i.e. if you don't know why your guild is on my enemies list, /tell me and we can discuss it.

(one possible exploit would be someone coming along camping/hunting the guards just for the heck of it. If they cost something to the owning guild each time they are killed, this could get expensive. Suggestions to avoid the exploit welcome)

One possibility is to have them respawn at the next level if they are killed, but this could still be exploited in lower level OP's.

Most of the above should only apply during peace time of course. The only affect of the enemies list during war time is that an enemy guild member cannot choose "Defend" just like members of the owning guild can't choose "Attack".

An ally can declare "Attack", but such a thing should be flagged on the allies list so the guild knows this has happened. Preventing them from attacking would just create an exploit where you declare everyone your friend.

2. A stable for the mounts/packers. A stable boy that could sell food for the animals and buy products. Stable use only for allies.

Noin's other suggestions are good too, but make the buffs and whatnot apply to allied guild members as well, not just the owning guild.

[sidusar]

I agree completely. Outpost battles are fun and all, but once you have the outpost the only thing you do with it is put a drill there and then there's no reason to ever return to it. This also means the location of the outpost doesn't matter at all, except for what level zone it's in. It doesn't pay to have an outpost in a strategic location.

Personally I'd rather have an outpost with all the things you decribe, a gathering place for the guild, but without the drill, than what we currently have. I think (hope) that they're already planning to add more options to outposts in the future. Still, it's always nice to make a wish-list of what we'd like to see.

First, my comments on your ideas:
1. I like it, but I don't think it should envelop the whole region, just a certain area around the outpost. Eventually there's supposed to be more outposts per region after all.
2. Absolutely, guards are a necesity. Guild members have to be safe in their own outpost.
3. Sounds good. Gives people a real reason to hunt near their outpost, and get an outpost near their hunting area of choice. Also gives those who like to solo some more options.
4. Definitely. The owning guild should have the option to place some decorations around the outpost too. Some random NPCs wandering around would also be nice.
5. A stable would be really handy, encouraging people to forage nearby like a healer does for hunting. A boost to focus regen... that would fall under the boosts from point 1, no?
6. It would be great if the outpost owners could choose to give other guilds access to use some or all of the abovementioned services. This adds an element of politics too, and allows us to reward the guilds that help us defend our outpost.

Something I'd like to add to the ideas is that I think there should be more buildings available than there are building pads, so that we have to choose what we want from our outposts. Some things I'd like to see as build options: an altar, a stable, a marketplace, a guard tower, and a warehouse (extra storage space). I'm sure I could come up with more after thinking a while, but those are the obvious ideas.

Then in addition to the buildings, the guild owning the outpost should be able to hire a number of NPCs for their outpost. There's the guards and the healer you already mentioned. Trainers would also be a possibility. And how about a welcomer that gives missions to visitors which with they can earn 'fame' with the guild? Or an ambasador from one of the local tribes that offers extra defenders in case of an attack, based on the fame your guild has with that tribe? The possibilities are limitless.

I also really like the idea of having to build the buildings ourselves, the way we did with the temples. Just don't make it require such a huge amount of materials as the temples did.

[oldmess]

And how about a welcomer that gives missions to visitors which with they can earn 'fame' with the guild?

"Fame" is a system by which you can prove your friendliness or antagonism to an in-game group that is controlled by the AI. A guild is not controlled by the AI. You can do missions for me all day long, but that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically trust you. That's a human decision.

It's not a game-breaking idea or anything, but since the "fame" you earn with my guild doesn't change the fact that it's still a human decision, it's probably not worth the programming effort.


OTOH, allowing a guild to work with nearby tribes in some way is one of those more advanced ideas I really like. I just don't know how it would work in-game specifically. But if you're going to allow that, don't you also have to have a way to bring hostile tribes into an attack against an Outpost? Our own OP, Berello Gorge has 2 nearby tribes, the Arid Matis (Karavan) and the Woven Bridles (Kami).

[sidusar]

"Fame" is a system by which you can prove your friendliness or antagonism to an in-game group that is controlled by the AI. A guild is not controlled by the AI. You can do missions for me all day long, but that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically trust you. That's a human decision.

True, that's why I said 'fame' and not fame. I'm not thinking of a generic welcomer giving out missions like "kill 3 gingos". I just like the idea of being able to create your own missions for a NPC to give out, with a little backstory and everything. Player-generated quests, if you will. In the perfect case a Fyros guild would be able to actually make their quests give Fyros fame, thus giving new players a (hopefully more interesting) alternative to completing a 100 "kill 3 gingos" missions if they want to raise their fame.

But there's other ways in which a guild welcomer NPC could work. Another possibility is that it just tells a story about the guild and what it stands for, or whatever the guild leader wants outsiders to know. This wouldn't have any use other than to customise the outpost, like a guild flag. But if you come across an outpost while travelling and find it's owned by a guild you never heard of, I think it would be nice to be able to directly get some information on that guild.

By the way, I do like the idea of actually being able to give 'usefull missions'. Like if I have materials that I want an amplifier crafted out of, but don't know any amp crafters that are available, I can put the materials on an NPC along with a reward and any amp crafter can do the mission, receive the reward and put the amp back in for me to collect later. But such NPCs would have to be in a town and not in an outpost.

OTOH, allowing a guild to work with nearby tribes in some way is one of those more advanced ideas I really like. I just don't know how it would work in-game specifically. But if you're going to allow that, don't you also have to have a way to bring hostile tribes into an attack against an Outpost? Our own OP, Berello Gorge has 2 nearby tribes, the Arid Matis (Karavan) and the Woven Bridles (Kami).

You're forgetting the Oasis Diggers, also Fyros and Kami, but not as hostile as the Woven Bridles. In fact before the fame changes I think they were one of the few tribes to have positive fame with all civilisations. Hidden Source and Nexus are the only regions that have three tribes, so if tribes could be involved in outposts, yours would be really interesting

Anyways, yeah, that makes sense. If you have really low fame with a local tribe, the attackers can use it against you. I like it. But obviously, we'd need a whole new system for that. I didn't work the idea out really, just hinted at it as a distant possibillity that I'd really like to see in the longer term.

[ajsuk]

all excellent ideas and points, if only they could all be implemented in 5mins hehe.. I want, I want!

[oldmess]

By the way, I do like the idea of actually being able to give 'usefull missions'. Like if I have materials that I want an amplifier crafted out of, but don't know any amp crafters that are available ...

mmmm, maybe it's even simpler. Instead of mission oriented, make it so the stable boy or a guild-hawker buys only what the guild lists as something they need. Or he buys anything, but only things on the need list can be "sold on to the guild" itself. Anything sold to the guild is available to be transferred into the guild inventory or it can be left to time-out and disappear after 7 days. If transferred, the seller gets the markup. Just like the way the regular sales work.

Much of that looks like it would fit into existing programming; the only real "new" screen we'd need is a way to flesh out a wish list so the guild could document what they are in need of. The idea of "sell on to owning guild" would work without it, but it would make it a lot harder for the owning guild to find worthwhile stuff in the pile.

A slightly more advanced version of it would involve the owning guild putting things up for trade. i.e. I could put a suit of light armor up and put an equivalent dapper value on it Then, as I list things the guild needs or wants, they too get a dapper equivalent, such as a stack of mats. In theory, the AI could then handle trades for us by allow a friend to stop by and trade his stack of mats for a suit of light armor or something.

This could include xp crystals or any of the items dug up by the drill. If the owning guild decides to, they can put those items up for trade along with a list of things they desire. Put dapper-equivalents on both and a trade is possible. The need list should have a quantity limit. i.e. if I say I need Choice Lake Resin and Choice Lake Wood and someone comes along and gives me nothing but resin, I'm only halfway there. If I say I need 999 of each, then the ability to take resin stops at a point when the quantity is filled.