Morality and Outposts

[lathan]

Thank goodness, someone finally understands the point.

*dances*

[aylwyne]

Its no suprise that a Tryker/Karavan Guild should challenge for control only that a member of the HOPE Alliance would , read their charter here:-

http://www.ballisticmystix.com/posts/list/124.page

One thing to remember is that HOPE was formed back when we thought Neutrality would mean more than gimping your teleport access. We've been having discussions about what we want HOPE to be at this point but it's still unclear with the new game developments.

But putting all of that aside, I see no reason why anyone needs more reason than "i want to play with the new stuff" to attack an outpost.

[lathan]

There was also the second point in my post, namely that the way in which it was gone about was not as good as it could have been. Attacking the guild holding an outpost for not sharing, then saying that if you take it over, you won't share either, seems a tad hypocritical.

[Lukati]

Everyone might want to take into consideration the fact that everyone's "moral" stance on this issue will slightly, if not significantly differ from one person to another. Having a "moral" reason to attack an outpost I feel is completely irrelevant.

As a matter of fact, you can put aside the blessings from the government or the gods. As far as I can tell, there was not an attempt to clear any misconceptions within the Tryker community, and as far as I can see, the HOPE charter was consciously neglected.

Not that any of this is a requirement for attacking an outpost (in fact there are no requirements for such an act whatsoever). But now you've obviously seen the consequences of the decisions you've made.

[akm72]

If a Karavan guild occupied an OP in the Burning Desert or the Witherings, I would expect a swift and strong kami challenge.

If an unfriendly Matis/Karavan guild did that, you'd probably be right. But if a Fyros/Karavan, or a Zorai/Karavan, guild took an outpost in their respective lands, I expect that most of the Kami guilds wouldn't be that bothered. Some might even defend the Karavan OP if their more fanatical co-religionists attacked it.

The Karavan want and need the lakelands and hopefully will find a way to restore balance.

The Karavan can "want and need" the lakelands 'til the Bodocs come home, but they belong to Trykers, NOT the Karavan or the Kami. It's up to Trykers who gets the OPs, not the Matis or the Karavan.

[kuroari]

Well, coming from someone who plays ryzom solely as an RPer (well .. mostly ) i think that we are playing right into the big-bosses at Nevrax's hands.

looking at all this in an RP perspective.. i'll give you your morals and your reasons.

ITS WAR PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! Pick up your lances swords baxes boxing gloves *cough* amps.. sry or weapon of choice and take over every last bit of territory you think your puny little arms can handle!

Since when was war about right and wrong!? speaking as one who knows all to much about war, there IS NO RIGHT AND WRONG... in RL, how many times have i witnessed first-hand the effects of war? way too many i tell you. however.. wars are fought FOR A REASON, not because they are "right" but b/c they are neccessary!

i suppose we all have a different idea of what bieng 'Neutral' is all about. to me, bieng neutral means that im willing to take part in a fight on either side of this battle, so longs im able to save my own skin in the proccess. it means i dont trust the kami nor the karavan, and as such they dont accept me -> why i dont get any PR tickets.. it makes perfect sense in RPing doesnt it?

this war is meant to make us fight each other.. its that our community (or so i thought) is so well developed, so strong and family-ish, that even tho we can attack each other in one land, we are STILL able to dig side-by-side and fend off the kitin shoulder to shoulder when the time comes.

We have to learn to face our problems together, even if it means that our only problem is ourselves.


May your blades chip and shatter,
May your amps fizzle and spurt,
Just remember, after the clouds of smoke die down and the heat finally wavers.. in the end we are all just homins bieng controlled by greater powers.. who is our real enemy? ourselves.. or our Gods?

[My opinions do not reflect those of my guild or anyone else associated with me, they are solely the opinions of me, Nightblade, and the one controlling my strings]

[petej]

Getting away from Whirling Stronghold and the HOPE issue which I do take seriously....

/Slap self

I view war on ATYS much like the real world conflict in Bosnia was or maybe Irac , Faction can be the cause in one area whilst in another the battle will be fought on Ethnic or other grounds with the previous enermys coming together to fight their previous allies it all depends on the specific situation and what is to be gained/lost at any time

Two Factions , Four Races , Many Guilds and Other Threats its not always gonna be clear cut...

[varelse]

Two Factions , Four Races , Many Guilds and Other Threats its not always gonna be clear cut...

Yes, and that is exactly how the world of Atys was designed. Read the lore, review dev interviews, and look at the Q&A answers... all pointing toward a complex political environment where races as well as factions may align or be opposed... and outside of all of that, the relentless threat of the kitin and the spreading of the Goo.

This is more than a simple game of Kami vs Karavan. It is what it was intended to be, a living world where all actions have complex and sometimes unpredictable consequences.

[vguerin]

One thing to remember is that HOPE was formed back when we thought Neutrality would mean more than gimping your teleport access. We've been having discussions about what we want HOPE to be at this point but it's still unclear with the new game developments.

But putting all of that aside, I see no reason why anyone needs more reason than "i want to play with the new stuff" to attack an outpost.

One of the peaceniks that gets it You should also take into account that MANY of the prominant members of the guilds when that charter was signed are gone or going. It appears to me as an outsider to this type of an alliance that on their way out some old friends are hoping that others will stay and honor a stance that they could not.

Basically pushing folks out of an alliance that really has no purpose in a changing world helps nothing. A charter can be changed as fast as the people who signed onto it initially left it. Do not chastise those that are staying for not renouncing a charter the current establishment may not agree with in it's entirety. These are the same folks that were underlings before the leaders left when the game evolved and they didn't.

I have always said that everyone should play the way they choose, your leaving and they are staying... let them play their game.

[danolt]

There was also the second point in my post, namely that the way in which it was gone about was not as good as it could have been. Attacking the guild holding an outpost for not sharing, then saying that if you take it over, you won't share either, seems a tad hypocritical.

Lathaniel,

The attack was canceled, an apology for the way it was handled was given. What more do you want?

Pero