False Declarations? o.0

[nialld]

Tyillin: "I am in no way pointing fingers. Kos knows that i think she is a great homin, and i applaude her for comming up with the idea. - I'm assuming she was the first. She's just made her life on atys alot easier."


Just to correct a point of fact: Kostika was too slow (by two days I think) to have invented this approach to outposts. I must admit my response on hearing that it was possible, was quite frankly LOL. I suppose even the devs need a good laugh at Christmas.

Nail
edited to attribute the quote to which I am responding

[philu]

kostak yer being a bit hypocritical here.

If we're talking hypocrisy. How about the hypocrisy of someone who arranges ambushes of other guilds in PvP zones (using one of their own guild members as a unwitting decoy) calling other people cowards? That's hypocrisy and the thing that made me laugh most about this thread.

Offering the same 'exploit' as a bribe to get round one already in place is hypocrisy.

As for none of the other so called exploits not being relevant, of course they are! Why should Nevrax do anything about this so called exploit when they haven't done anything about them? To quote from another Ryzom forum:

"If they declare it an exploit that will be MASSIVELY inconsistent with their approach to other things. They allow aggro dragging, allow kill stealing, allow spawn camping, turn a blind eye to cliffing, dont' enforce the CoC or Courtesy Policy in the PvP zones, allow the merchant exploit and then turn against this? That'd be massive hypocrisy."

Any one who has done any of the above is being hypocritical saying anything about mutual war declarations.

"Let he who is without sin......"

[g00st]

hey point that big skull thing away for me!

while yer casting stones ack i cant be bothered explaining any point i had

eeek posting...

my point was that. while "some" are known to report other members of the community for nefarious deeds maybe "cliffing" when the "some other members" of the community now raise a point its washed off as being good rp....

surely mutual protection means y'all group up and defend yer post...not....er we're all gonna attack each others but not turn up so no one can ever try do anything......i'm not aen camping i live here.....i'm not kill stealing my character is nasty.....i'm not cliffing my character can only look down or suffers from inverted vertigo ....

woop...woop

----ghuiss-----Mr Superhero-----exploiter of nothing

[ambika]

As for none of the other so called exploits not being relevant, of course they are! Why should Nevrax do anything about this so called exploit when they haven't done anything about them? To quote from another Ryzom forum:

"If they declare it an exploit that will be MASSIVELY inconsistent with their approach to other things. They allow aggro dragging, allow kill stealing, allow spawn camping, turn a blind eye to cliffing, dont' enforce the CoC or Courtesy Policy in the PvP zones, allow the merchant exploit and then turn against this? That'd be massive hypocrisy."

Any one who has done any of the above is being hypocritical saying anything about mutual war declarations.

"Let he who is without sin......"

They are NOT relevant because aggro dragging, kill stealing, and cliffing are NOT allowed. The last FvF event allowed aggro-dragging because there was no DP. Yeah it probably got on some people's nerves but there was no DP which is the main reason (along with it being annoying) that people hate aggro-dragging. Not sure what you mean by not enforcing the CoC or Courtey Policty in a PvP zone. As for the merchant exploit, I don't see how that's an exploit when it dosn't take away from anyone anything (except making them a bit miserable cause they see people dig Q250 seeds and amber and they want it...-_-; )

[blaah]

They are NOT relevant because aggro dragging, kill stealing, and cliffing are NOT allowed. The last FvF event allowed aggro-dragging because there was no DP. Yeah it probably got on some people's nerves but there was no DP which is the main reason (along with it being annoying) that people hate aggro-dragging. Not sure what you mean by not enforcing the CoC or Courtey Policty in a PvP zone. As for the merchant exploit, I don't see how that's an exploit when it dosn't take away from anyone anything (except making them a bit miserable cause they see people dig Q250 seeds and amber and they want it...-_-; )

Simon says: "JUMP!"

[ambika]

Simon says: "JUMP!"

No need to be condescending. As someone may have told you...if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything at all.

I was merely pointing out they are NOT allowed. No, doesn't stop from people doing them and in the past, they have been poorly enforced. That does not mean people should do them because they are poorly enforced. That's just taking an easy way out...just as this false declarations are taking an easy way out.

[totnkopf]

They are NOT relevant because aggro dragging, kill stealing, and cliffing are NOT allowed.

While I do think its sad that a guild has an outpost and can't be bothered to defend it, I'm not going to get involved in the argument here.

Instead, I'd just like to say that Kill Stealing is NOT against the CoC. This argument was brought up a couple times in the past, but its not in the CoC that kill stealing is "illegal". That'd be why all the GMs don't enforce it and that Lawrence once responded to the issue by simply saying that whatever team did the most damage, gets the booty.

Cliffing is also one that GMs have trouble with. Its considered an exploit, but because its not spelled out in the CoC, the GMs can't enforce it. They simple note down the spot that its occuring at for "future use". I'm assuming that at some point they'll block those areas from being exploited like that, but thats probably a long term thing.

Aggro dragging (at least in response to Outposts) was actually "OK'd" by Nevrax during one of their Q&A or Outposts overview threads. The GMs during the FvF event pretty much said the same thing. Their presence in the old lands was pretty much to check language in region chat.

Unless an offense is practically spelled out in agonizing detail, the GMs cannot react to it. And the saying "Alls fair in love and war" seems to apply.

[blaah]

I was merely pointing out they are NOT allowed. No, doesn't stop from people doing them and in the past, they have been poorly enforced. That does not mean people should do them because they are poorly enforced. That's just taking an easy way out...just as this false declarations are taking an easy way out.

aggro draggin - happened in ep2, _then_ they removed dp when it became a problem. allowed
PvP cliffing (hide behind solid object/ground so other has difficult to target you) - allowed
PvE cliffing - just make sure, mob can get to you, but not before you can kill it - allowed
kill stealing - does not exist, fight harder next time, allowed

merchant storage - using game mechanics on your advantage - allowed
--
ALL are exploits, ALL are allowed.

if they dont change game mechanics on war declaration and just ban "false" declarations, they (nevrax) are really short of dev power.

[totnkopf]

aggro draggin - happened in ep2, _then_ they removed dp when it became a problem. allowed
PvP cliffing (hide behind solid object/ground so other has difficult to target you) - allowed
PvE cliffing - just make sure, mob can get to you, but not before you can kill it - allowed
kill stealing - does not exist, fight harder next time, allowed

merchant storage - using game mechanics on your advantage - allowed

Please quote from the CoC where each of these is declared "illegal". I think you'll be disappointed on how many you find.

[ambika]

aggro draggin - happened in ep2, _then_ they removed dp when it became a problem. allowed
PvP cliffing (hide behind solid object/ground so other has difficult to target you) - allowed
PvE cliffing - just make sure, mob can get to you, but not before you can kill it - allowed
kill stealing - does not exist, fight harder next time, allowed

merchant storage - using game mechanics on your advantage - allowed
--
ALL are exploits, ALL are allowed.

if they dont change game mechanics on war declaration and just ban "false" declarations, they (nevrax) are really short of dev power.

Aggro-dragging allowed only then because of no DP. They obviously saw people would either say "oh accident" or too many cases where it would be too difficult to prove who is to blame. Easiest solution would be to remove mobs or just remove dp. In any other case, it's NOT allowed.

For PvP cliffing, it goes both ways. The person getting attacked can attack back...it's almost as if there IS no obstacles (unlses you're melee..move back just out of range...-_-; ). No person is as "dumb" as a mob to run TO the wall (speaking for those melee who wouldn't be able to hit someone on a cliff) knowing they can't deal any damage. Don't approve of this, but it's something one can easily avoid.

PvE cliffing: Not allowed. Not sure where you get this. I've asked myself and they said "no". Doesn't stop people from doing it.

Kill stealing: Not Allowed. People still do it but luckily it's not a huge problem here. Not sure where ya get the idea it's allowed.

Merchant Storage: Allowed and not an exploit. Not sure why this would bother anyone. Doesn't take up any space on the merchant (there's no limit how many items the population as a whole can put on the merchants). People can use filters. At most people will see those mats and wish they could buy it. Not a discomfort to anyone (especially on the level of Kill stealing of aggro dragging). I would see this as a problem if we had the ability to add-on storage to our apartments or buy more packers...


If you can quote rom the CoC or GM saying that the first 4 is allowed and the 5th is an exploit (how can it be when it doesn't give you an advantage over others as far as leveling goes nor does it take the fun from anyone in-game)...go for it.