poll: PR tp restriction for neutrals

[weedakos]

TPing is a gift from our Sweet Jena and that Kami scum MaDuk, not a right.

i respect the fact that the lore states that but dont mind me asking you to think of the analogies on the following hypothesis:

Cars are constructed by a few countries in the world...lets say they decided to keep em for themselves and withdraw all existing cars...

Given u where the resident of a non manufacturer would it bug u to loose ur car?

would it bug the hell out of you to walk to commute to work on foot because the bus left u half way there??

Would a non manufacturing country eventually form its own car industry??

[ariwen]

Yes, I guess I have to let my oppinion be known too.

I feel if your choosing one of three options, you should get one of three rites.
Nuetral not getting as many tps, and chosen sides, kami vs karavan. So to me it makes sense.

Me choosing to be aligned with the Karavan I cant use Certain Kami TP's Thats only right! Being a nuetral, should give you less benefits thatn choosing one side over the other.

As far as restrictions, thats the same in all games, as well as real life. You cant have it your way all the time. You have to make choices, and live with your choices, in RL or in MMORPG's.

Yet of course this is just my oppinion.

[totnkopf]

Would a non manufacturing country eventually form its own car industry??

they might if they could. However, the Kara use technology and perhaps materials that don't even exist on this planet. That would make constructing anything they might gift to a follwer hard to reproduce. The kami are masters of magic, something that can't be reproduced if the person attempting to do it has no prior knowledge of how it was cast.

So let us say that at some point PR tps were opened up to the neutral players. Using the past trend of assigning TPs, only Windy Gate and maybe Trench of Trials would be available to Neutrals. That'd give them some PR tps, yet I doubt that would stop the moaning about not having PR tps. The new restrictions on neutals make leveling to 200 easy, just the same as the factions, but anything plus is a real challenge. That makes a high level neutral character something of a challenge, and something that they can be proud of since they have battled against the odds and still come out on top.

The new changes aren't meant to make anyone jump for joy, however, they make sense from a RP standpoint and will make the game something new. Everyone makes sacrifices and everyone has to come to a new way of playing the game.

[daisuki]

Bones agrees with Morgaine I havnt experienced these changes myself yet, as I am still deployed in the Middle East, reminds me of the Fyros lands over here, LOL. I've seen plenty of bandits, no gingos yet, however. Anyways, I am simply speaking from an RP perspective and that is why I feel so strong about it. These changes, imo will make it more interesting and have more meaning to be a follower of a faction. I don't want the neutral players to quit, I just dont feel they should have access to this privlidge if they are not followers, of either side. Hope to see yall in game in a few months whenever I get back.
Bones of OmegaV - out

[lathan]

Imo it's not a gift from anyone if you pay for it. We pay for tp tickets. Therefore they are not gifts, they are a service we pay for. Denying people tp tickets because they aren't in a cult is basically the same as a bus driver refusing to take you on the bus because you aren't his religion. If you've been trying to kill people of his religion, I could understand it; he wouldn't want to aid you in any way. But otherwise, he has a job to do, and he is being paid for it, so he should do it.

[vguerin]

Imo it's not a gift from anyone if you pay for it. We pay for tp tickets. Therefore they are not gifts, they are a service we pay for. Denying people tp tickets because they aren't in a cult is basically the same as a bus driver refusing to take you on the bus because you aren't his religion. If you've been trying to kill people of his religion, I could understand it; he wouldn't want to aid you in any way. But otherwise, he has a job to do, and he is being paid for it, so he should do it.

The analogy is off, though I see your point.

A public bus anyone can ride, a chartered bus requires membership/payment.

And we all know Spiff rides the short bus

[jared96]

TPs are a service given to us by our Karavan/Kami friends and if you are neutral then why should they do this service for you

There are 12,250 reasons. If it is a service to their loyalists, then it should be free, charge the rest the 12,250 dappers.

[jared96]

Nuetral not getting as many tps, and chosen sides, kami vs karavan. So to me it makes sense. Me choosing to be aligned with the Karavan I cant use Certain Kami TP's Thats only right! Being a nuetral, should give you less benefits thatn choosing one side over the other.

Ok say let's take it a step further......Kami being the masters of resources give kamists twice the advantages of karavan in digging......karavan with all their machinery have twice the crafting advantages. Kamists shall be by nature stronger in all things mystical (kami mages rule)....karavaners shall be by nature stronger in all things technology related (kara ranged rules).....do such restrictions still make sense ?

[jared96]

So instead you're a puppet with sight. You complain and moan, whine and groan, yet you're still here, and you're still paying your sub. So, where it matters to Nevrax, you're ok with everything they're doing because, in the end, they still get their money and you're still here. If you truly wanted to show them you didn't agree with these changes, then you'd have canceled your sub and moved on.

Blaah may be.....at the moment ..... but where's all those other peeps we used to play with ?....where's all the other guilds and peeps who used to be here up to Episode 2 ? Why are there so many "Sorry to say it but Goodbye" threads on the forums ? Why are many of us doing weekly "flushings" of our friends list bto remove peeps who have left the game ? Why are the majority of the people in the poll against this restriction ?

There is no way that one can say that those who choose to be neutral are not losing more than those who choose a faction. Why do they have to lose any more than anyone else ?

My take is Blaah is making one last plea for Nevrax to reconsider some of the changes and provide a way of playing the game that Blaah bought into Ryzon for. And if Blaah does cancel, how does that help the FvF proponents ? Considering Nevrax's financial position, the fact that so many people have left and that so many people are expressing their disatisfaction with the direction the game is taking can't bode well for the future of the game. I am sure the bankruptcy court is paying attention to the subscription numbers. Why encourage more to leave by telling people if they don't like it, get out ??

I have cut our two subscriptions down to 1 month renewal. In perusing the boards I see others have taken this step. I have done this for several reasons 1) being that so many friends have left, 2) I don't get as much out of the game as I used to, 3) I don't wanna pay that bill for 12 months and then a month later the courts say "it's over Nevrax".

A night doesn't go by it seems without getting a "bye bye pm" and I have done my best to encourage these peeps to watch the roadmap and boards to see if any future changes might bring them back. Personally I am still sitting on the fence with the changes. As a Fyros dude, the changes make it more difficult to play with my young son a Tryker. If I go along with the FvF stuff, as soon asI can get access to PR, I become KOS when I go to tryker. Aslo gonna make it more difficult for me to continue woking Tryker crafts.

But I think that any change which a substantial amount of people are unhappy with bodes very bad for the game and it's loyal players. I don't understand why giving similar advantages to various playing styles is objectionable to any one group.

However, let me take a different approach here. What kind of things do you expect to get as a Neutral (remember this has to make sense both for game mechanics AND with the story. Kara/kami aren't gonna bend over backwards and give rewards to those who defy them).

I was Cubmaster for a church sponsored Cub Scout pack for a church I didn't belong to. I ran a baseball league for another church that I didn't belong to. My grandmother goes to Bingo at a church she doesn't belong to. Nobody complained that I wasn't a church member. If kami / kara wants to give their faithful a free ride fine, they been charging everyone 12,250 all this time, continue to do so.....what church cares as to the frame of mind of the peep buying the cake at the bake sale ? Kamis and Kara can give their worshippers free cake, I don't think neutrals will mind paying for theirs.

And I don't think anyone is "defying" these so called gods. No one is taking active steps against them. I wouldn't venture to speak for anyone else but I, for one, in RP mode am more concerened with the kitin threat than bickering between self proclaimed deities. Is Killing Kitin in the interests of these deities ? If so, then it is in their interests to help people who do that. Each kitin killed is a kitin that ain't killing their converts.

Creating a whole new "faction" doesn't work, as Aajolea has pointed out, since they lack unity in their goals. Some are pacificts who want no war, others want the ability to do everything they can, just not commit themselves to a faction

Again, from the FvF PoV I can't see how one in that mindset would fathom what does or doesn't work for those that are not proponents of FvF. Those who choose not to participate in FvF simply want to kill kitin as they have been doing, many of them for almost 2 years. The lore states that Atys was once united in face of the kitin threat. Why must those dedicated to that unity and concerned with the greater threat of the kitin be curtailed in the face of these self proclaimed deities ?

At a point in Atys' past, leaders of the 4 races banded together and united all homins in the face of the kitin threat. Let this third faction honor the "spirit" of these great leaders in Atys' history. Let neutrals honor these great heroes of the past. Let neutrals build monuments to them. Let neutrals have outposts near PR portals to be the "advance guard" against these threats. Let the spirits of these great leaders grant neutrals the power to tp to all regions. Why can't neutrals be rewarded for being dedicated to the greater good of Atys ? I don't see how would that conflict with any of these "diverse" reasons for being neutral ? Nor would it provide any advantage over FvF'ers. The only thing it would do is remove an advantage that currently exists for those who chose a specific play style.

So instead, the neutrals should get all the TPs, while those who had the courage to commit themselves to a faction lose half of them?

I have trouble equating genocide with courage. On the tp point, let's not equate not being able to get to the most convenient spot with not being able to get there at all. As a 250 level harvester and 200 level crafter, I need to get to 200+ mat areas....If I choose FvF, I can still get there, neutrals can't, not reasonably.

The "sneak" option is a "faux" option. I have traveled alone to most areas on Atys and enjoy the challenge but more often than not I die in a solo attempt. How does the casual player spend their 1-2 hours of playing time....sneaking into ToT....and then the next nite harvesting a bagfull and then tp'ing out .... so one will be able to make progress on their PR dig maybe every other nite if they are lucky ? Or maybe they just make another toon on a 2nd account who fakes allegiance to one faction or another to get the tp's and then tp's in and out when their bag is full.

And not mentioned is that neutrals can't get more than 50% favor at npc's so they are economically disadvantaged yet again. Neutrals, who don't want to fight any homin, can't "hold" an outpost so can't get all those nice xp crystals and can't get all the other advantages of outpost ownership.

So, you're neutral, you get some of the cookies. You're kami, you get some of the cookies. And you're kara, you get some of the cookies. None of them get ALL of the cookies and thats the way it should be. If one side got ALL, then everyone would be neutral,

This concept of everyone getting an equal share of cookies is false. It's like putting a bunch of dollar bills in a bag and saying everybody gets 12 bills. One peep has 12 bills in their hand and the other has 12 bills in their hand and the fact that one peep's are all 100 dollar bills and the other's are all 1 dollar bills doesn't seem to matter....after all we al have the same amount of bills.

It seems there is a lot of "I got mine and anything that makes it harder for other peeps to get the same advantages I have" is good. The majority of peeps who already had a set of Aen armor thought it was great idea to make it much harder to get. The majority who already completed all the race rites thinks it's great that that's gonna be a real headache now.

Even within the FvF ranks itself, racial spells will be a bit more difficult to get when guards are KOS'ing but if I got mine already who cares ? It seems to make sense to me that if I am going to claim loyalty to one civilization, I should forfeit any benefits from other racial spells or rites. How many who "already got theirs" will be in favor of that ? Why is there such an objection to peeps who want to play a different way from being able to get as cool stuff as everybody else a problem ?

The neutrals aren't asking for anything MORE than the FvF's have, they have invested a lot of time and money in creating the toon that they want to play and now are being told that they will be penalized for it. The alternative is to "fake" allegiance and turn the PvP tag off. If there was an objection on a RP basis to the recent changes, I would have expected this to be it.

[daisuki]

Ok, gift was a bad choice of words. You make an interesting point, though. I believe they should be free. But I still don't see why they would want to help someone who is not for their cause. I could make a compromise and maybe say that they could put missions on there and have that as a reward for completing a mission instead of giving dappers. Like say a neutral does a mission for the Karavan, or even a low fame Karavan follower as well. Depending on how difficult that mission is he/she will recieve 1 or more tp tickets for completing the mission. This would slow you down if you are busy but I think it would be neat. Once you reach the required fame level for that tp area, you would then be granted a free tp pass for that teleporter. It would also be a nice reward for Karavan/Kami Champions to be able to TP for free rather than just have the title.