poll: PR tp restriction for neutrals

[lathan]

After playing the game for a year, developing contacts and friends over ALL of Atys, I am not going to reject them on the whim of some shapechanging freakoid or masked real-estate developer. My loyalties are to my fellow Homins - all of them - above my loyalty to my race and far above my loyalty to foreigners, who helped us once but now seem determined to destroy everything that made this 'fun'
I dont see myself enjoying whats coming, and it IS going to hurt missing out on the faction bribes, but that is the price we are required to pay.

Well, firstly, almost everyone of a neutral persuasion I play with has left, most of the rest are going to do the same thing as I'm proposing.

Secondly, I don't see why going non-pvp but token aligned means I have to reject anyone. I can tp into the same region as any of my friends can, whatever their faction. The only exception to this is if it's controlled by a faction spire. In which case if I was neutral, I still wouldn't be able to. So, basically, whoever I want to team with, in whichever region, I can do it just as well, if not better (by being able to tp in to lvl250 regions and pr) then I could if I was neutral. If your, say, kami friends want you to help them out in pr, you would be able to do it much better if you were karavan, surely? As a neutral they would always need to help you run to them from nexus or wait for you to run there yourself, which will be much harder than just running from a kara to a kami tp.

If my neutral friends would reject me for choosing to fly a different flag than them (and remember, I won't be pvp-ing anyone.. pvp flag will stay off), then I guess I couldn't have called them friends in the first place.

[weedakos]

the neutral faction is a joke...its just a way of Nevrax telling us we got what we wanted when we didnt...as it stands noone can develop his character fully as a neutral...the game forces him to ally with some cult in order to play on level fields with the rest...so basically nevrax says u can be neutral all u want but if u want to advance/explore like the others u HAVE to join a cult

Cultists compare not having the opposing factions TP with not having any at all..
Give me a break...wear the other guys shoes for a bit and think..

Cult bonuses is brought up as an excuse...
As if technology cant be stolen or magic cant be scribed/taught for neutrals to develop their own tps...

The lack of homogeneity in the neutral faction is mentioned...
As if every cultist has 100/-100 fame and shares the same views about the opposing faction/neutrals.Some common points apply for all members of every faction.

neutrals and rites
they get to do the low level ones and miss out on the high lvl ones ...
again the neutral faction is treated as a waiting room for the cults

All and all not one of the players waiting to be neutral got what they wanted
..a chance to play the game to its full without being kami/kara
(for those cultists who have 250 skills all i can say is they have no idea what it will be like to get to 250 as a neutral..keep in mind spires will be keeping neutrals out of both factions high lvl areas)

The neutral faction needs unique bonuses all it has is restrictions as it stands
examples:

1.Neutral only rites.. based on ballance [think budhism and stretch it a lot]
few examples of possible rites:
harvesters = balance with nature...similar to food rite or something [?]
fighters = mercenary rite..produce a number of tasks for both cults [?]
magicians = tranquility rite..silence aura [?]
crafters = 4 x copycat rites..learn the extra patterns going to extra length to acquire them at lvl200 instead of 150[?]

2.Neutral TPs...[1/area ...the worst strategically placed tps...]
Neutrals didnt pop after the patch they where always there...the fact that they are not mentioned in the lore means they can be freely introduced at any point of the story...if u want me to produce a theory behind teleportation and neutrals think Psionics* and the inner balance involved in achieving such tasks or Druids* and the balance of nature

*AD&D definitions/abilities u can read more if u wish here

all that would take a long time to develop...until then i would suggest that the high lvl/PR TPs were open for neutrals ...
1 per area kami or kara...the worst strategically...and ask for some fame for them to be used
[obviously not 50/-50 thats conversion...something to the 25 range (since with 30 fame ur considered a possible convert)]

for now i guess pick ur side so u have the tps...keep the flag off...and hope nevrax actually makes neutral anything close to what it should be

[daisuki]

As I stated in a previous post:
I remember a time when there were no teleporters at all. I did just fine by myself sneaking around, which is a skill you will learn well after playing for a while. By the time you get to a higher level you probably will have chosen which side you will be on, either based on reading the story, forums or simply because of the people you will meet and team with in game. In my opinion neutral players should not have access to teleporters at all. TPs are a service given to us by our Karavan/Kami friends and if you are neutral then why should they do this service for you. As I said, I know how long it takes to go through all of ATYS as do many others who have been playing since beta and fbt. We spent many hours roaming the living planet and it did no harm, only made us better at sneaking. You may also come to find that when you do dig at a higher level you will get killed by mobs quick solo because you will not travel in HP boost gear, but you will be in your focus boost gear. So my advice is choose a side, or get used to sneaking around. Karavan/Kami teleporters are a privledge given to us by our higher powers for being faithful and they are not, and should not be a right for all. Just because you choose a side doesn't mean you have to lose friends. It is a game and too many here take it personally. I am karavan so I kill Kami, but at the end of the day, I chat with my Kami friends whom I have killed and gotten killed by. Have fun for what the game is and dont turn it into your real life. Good Luck young homin, and may Jena be with you on all your travels.
Bones of OMEGAV - out

[sidusar]

The neutral faction needs unique bonuses all it has is restrictions as it stands

Sorry, I have to disagree. If neutrals get their own unique bonuses then 'neutral' becomes just a third faction. Neutral isn't a faction, it means to not be part of any faction. Being neutral you should not have any unique bonuses that come with a faction, and none of the penalties either.

Right now the bonus of joining a faction is to be able to use all their TPs, including the ones in highlevel and PR zones. The penalty is loosing access to all of the opposing faction's TPs. Only problem is the bonus far outweighs the penalty in this case.

(for those cultists who have 250 skills all i can say is they have no idea what it will be like to get to 250 as a neutral..keep in mind spires will be keeping neutrals out of both factions high lvl areas)

Plenty of players made 250 desert/lake/jungle forage without ever using a TP in SC/Loria/Void. And a lot of players made 250 in combat skills in those same regions before those TPs were even active. The only skill that's a lot harder to get to 250 for neutrals after the changes is PR foraging.

Where'd you get the idea spires will block neutrals from entering high level areas? Never read anything in that direction myself.

[weedakos]

You may also come to find that when you do dig at a higher level you will get killed by mobs quick solo because you will not travel in HP boost gear, but you will be in your focus boost gear.

ur presuming all neutrals are low levels...which is not the case...ppl have spent hours digging at GoC/corridor [how do neutrals get there? via osmosis?] etc/Pr to be denied access to them blatantly

As I said, I know how long it takes to go through all of ATYS as do many others who have been playing since beta and fbt. We spent many hours roaming the living planet and it did no harm, only made us better at sneaking.

ppl may have not mastered [no irony here] sneaking like you might have but i'm sure theres enough involved as it is..

would Karavan give up elemental magic?
would Kami give up ranged [if it was worth lvling lmao]??
would they still do it if Neutrals could do both @ max lvl???

No they wouldn't..ppl would post like mad against it...just like neutrals are doing now...

a simple digging expedition in the PR would involve a 1h trip everytime a bagfull was harvested to get back to the spot from the closest tp...a cultist is back in 5min...

high lvl digging will be near impossible with spires in the near future...and no neutrals with harvesting as their primary lvl will be developed with all that sneaking involved ppl will opt for ele/melee first

thats a blatant handicap right there...why do ppl not affected by it seem to keep an inconsiderate stance???

Just because you choose a side doesn't mean you have to lose friends. It is a game and too many here take it personally. I am karavan so I kill Kami, but at the end of the day, I chat with my Kami friends whom I have killed and gotten killed by.

relationships fade when contact gets more impersonal...teaming becomes Pming and eventually fades out....

--------
also to a previous poster mentioning that neutral is new to the genre:

Neutral faction has appeared in other online games before this one [AoL pops to mind where neutrals had unique tps and their own city...]

[weedakos]

Sorry, I have to disagree. If neutrals get their own unique bonuses then 'neutral' becomes just a third faction. Neutral isn't a faction, it means to not be part of any faction.

That would have to be ''Undetermined''..

Being neutral you should not have any unique bonuses that come with a faction, and none of the penalties either.

seems to me neutrals got penalties that far outweigh the bonuses and cults the other way around..

Where'd you get the idea spires will block neutrals from entering high level areas? Never read anything in that direction myself.

if i'm not mistaken they are supposed to keep non aligned players out...

[petej]

I dont see why PR should be any different than the other lands , give Neutrals access to half of the TP's alternating which Faction between regions and block the lvl 250's

[daisuki]

No, I never said neutrals were all low levels. but anyways
You missed the main point of the post so I will keep it simple. The Karavan and Kami teleporters offer there services to help loyal homins. Why should they help someone who is not loyal to them. TPing is a gift from our Sweet Jena and that Kami scum MaDuk, not a right.

[sidusar]

That would have to be ''Undetermined''..

Nope, undetermined means you haven't decided yet what you want to be.

There could ofcourse be a third faction that's neutral to the Kami-Karavan conflict, but as game mechanics go right now 'neutral' means 'not part of any faction'.

seems to me neutrals got penalties that far outweigh the bonuses and cults the other way around..

Yep, that's the problem.

if i'm not mistaken they are supposed to keep non aligned players out...

If that's true I'd be opposed to it. But so far we don't know much about how the spires will work, so let's stick to how the current system works.

[bcharles]

No, I never said neutrals were all low levels. but anyways
You missed the main point of the post so I will keep it simple. The Karavan and Kami teleporters offer there services to help loyal homins. Why should they help someone who is not loyal to them. TPing is a gift from our Sweet Jena and that Kami scum MaDuk, not a right.

From a RP point of view what you say makes sense. However...

I, as a player, now have two options. I can do a personality transplant on my character and either embrace religious hatred or become a liar and claim I follow a cult, OR, I give up access to half a world I've come to love.

My character understands your reasoning. I, as a player, don't like it.