ATS Patch: Outposts & Fame System

[sprite]

The way I read this (I hope I'm right, but no definate facts and can't test on ATS yet) is that neutrals will have the following:

- Can't use the currently inactive TPs ("some high level TPs")
- Can use one or more of the newly active Nexus TPs (allow a run into WL and Umbra... a pain, but not completely cut off from PR )
- Can't use any PR TP

Again, hopes and assumptions get me to the neutral's one advantage:
During spire battles...

We know that when a region is claimed by a faction, that faction will have access to its TPs, and the opposing faction will not be able to use TPs at all...
The advantage comes in if we hope/assume that neutrals will be able to use any TP in the zone, no matter the alignment (except the PR or "some high level" ones). This gives neutrals a vast advantage by never having their possible TP "targets" being unusable

Now we just gotta hope I'm right about the spires...

[boinged]

Well I *was* going to stay neutral - but now no PR tps makes that difficult.
The two places I harvest are Umbra and Scorched Corridor (sometimes Flaming Forest). One of the ways round the non-functioning tps in the SC is to go via Windy Gate. Sounds like these will be working in Chapter 3, but again - not for neutrals.

I wonder how respawn points will be handled though? I'm not a big fan of getting the suicide express but this could be a way around getting to high level areas at least. (Yeah I know Trykers have been doing it for ages )

I guess Kami followers won't be able to tp to Karavan altars and vice versa, so they're losing out too, which maybe balances it. I expect there will be a lot more foot traffic which is no bad thing.

The citizen/religion changes are going to cause a massive shakeup to guilds. It's still difficult to see whether it will be worth changing a guild to full citizenship although the way I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) a nation-aligned guild is potentially more open as it can accept people with and without citizenship (as long as it's the same as the guild).

Am I reading too much into this comment:

You can lose your link to a side, by losing loads of fame points or just by talking to the appropriate Magistrate or Priest. So make sure you are bashing the right mobs, NPC, tribes.

in thinking that hunting certain creatures will affect fame? Or do they just mean tribes?

KOS and high prices are welcome changes as fame is pretty meaningless atm (easier to live with something like that than your tp's to half of everywhere not working ). Will this affect player-sold goods on the vendors though with an adjusted merchant tax? And will there be neutral merchants where free trade can flourish?

Finally, what's going to happen to current tp tickets? Now we can store them in our appartments, should I stockpike 5000 PR ones and will that be long enough to get through the war?

[dc77066]

... nobody is binding you, you can always leave the kami or karavan if you choose to.

My attempt at humor fell short I see...

I think there is a distinct difference between rejecting a faction and being neutral. Prime Roots are not the domain of the Kami or Karavan. I can't see a reason why the Prime Roots should be used as a reward token, other than to encourage a player to pick a faction.

As a guild leader I can't be so whimsical, claiming allegiance when it suits me. My actions affect those that stand at my side.

[phradok]

If they wanted to force everyone out of a neutral guild and aligned with Karavan and Kami and into open PvP they are doing a good job of it. Neutral guilds will only be able to have neutral players. Neutral players can't easily access the Prime Roots (running around the Prime Roots is hard enough, let alone having to run to them from very limited entry points each time you want to forage). Imagine have to run to the Forbidden Depths each time you wanted to forage there. Neutral guilds will not have easy access to supreme materials and thus will tend to have subpar equipment. Neutral players will be dissatisfied with subpar equipment and become aligned so they can join an aligned guild.

This affects 30% of all guilds with an alignment specified on the List of Guilds Thread. But perhaps this is exactly the type of reaction they are hoping for. Everyone aligned and involved in open faction PvP (at least those who are still playing the game).

[aylwyne]

I really dislike the idea that everyone in a guild must follow the same in-game religion. I'd much rather see a neutral guild be able to adopt a standard of tolerance, allowing characters to be members regardless of their beliefs in the higher powers. Leave it up to the guilds to enforce these beliefs if they choose. Being forced to adopt a system of intolerance really rubs me the wrong way.

[sidusar]

you reject the kami, you reject the karavan. tell me, why should they lift a finger to help you?

Yesyes, from a lore perspective it all makes perfect sense. The Kami and Karavan control the teleporters and respawns, so if you choose not to help them they won't give you access to their more important teleporters.

I can join a Kami guild and stay neutral, by keeping away whenever my guild goes to do Kami things. But I can't join a neutral guild as a Kamist and then under my guild banner work to oppose the Karavan.

But talking from a gameplay perspective, options are being taking away from the players, options they've had since this game launched and which make a huge difference. That's always a bad thing. Without teleporters in PR it's made pretty much impossible for neutrals to harvest supreme materials. If you want to pick a side but happen to be having a lot of fun playing with others who want remain neutral, suddenly you can't be in the same guild anymore. I fear for a lot of players it will be too bitter a pill to swallow.

I'd suggest to be a little less harsh on limiting TP access to neutrals. Sure, it'd be unfair to those who pick a side if neutrals get to use all altars while they can only use half. But no TPs in the PR or highlevel areas at all is too much of a handicap. Give the neutrals access to part of the PR TPs (like, no access to Abyss or Underspring, but can use half of the TPs in Umbra and Wastelands). And put some altars close to the highlevel regions (there's already HoP and MG Kami altars close to Void, and Oasis Kami altar close to FF, but the nearest altar to GoC that's not in GoC is miles away). This way neutrals aren't totally cripled in their movement freedom.

And when are we going to see one of those 'deeper' PR zones that are offlimits to Karavan followers (and thus have only Kami TPs and tribes)? I'd like that "stay out of the PR" rule that the Karavan have to actually mean something.

- Can't use the currently inactive TPs ("some high level TPs")
- Can use one or more of the newly active Nexus TPs (allow a run into WL and Umbra... a pain, but not completely cut off from PR )

I think by "some high level TPs" they mean the teleporters in the purple zones (Void, SC, GoC, Loria) and not the regions that currently have inactive TPs. Nexus is one of those regions too after all. And would you call Knoll of Dissent high level?

[vguerin]

I do not see where all the hoopla is coming from, maybe a hope to change direction. Things are FINALLY going as planned and folks want something for no allegiance ?

[blaah]

I do not see where all the hoopla is coming from, maybe a hope to change direction. Things are FINALLY going as planned and folks want something for no allegiance ?

no access to TP's in PR means halt to PR digging with current aggro to many players. maybe their only goal was to reach 250 in PR - take that away, you get one sad player who might leave.

[xenofur]

My attempt at humor fell short I see...

i'm prone to taking things at point-blank value.

I think there is a distinct difference between rejecting a faction and being neutral.

o rly?
completely depends on who you're talking to. imagine this conversation:
Rakujitsu: "Alright, I'm not against you and not against the Kami, but for several reasons i can't swear allegiance to you. If it helps, i won't do so for the Kami either. Now could i please have a ticket for this porter?"
Karavan Roots-Porter Guard: "And I'm supposed to believe you? Get out of my sight!"

Prime Roots are not the domain of the Kami or Karavan. I can't see a reason why the Prime Roots should be used as a reward token, other than to encourage a player to pick a faction.

The roots aren't, the porters are.

As a guild leader I can't be so whimsical, claiming allegiance when it suits me. My actions affect those that stand at my side.

hard job, i know that first-hand, but remember this: you can't please everyone.

@sidusar: quite true, but being more lenient would increase the number of inconsistencies this game has. something which is not desirable for me.

[kratos84]

There are spots in Underspring that are more easily accessible from Dyron Karavan than numerous other spots in Wastelands from the current PR TP's. Digging PR for neutral players will certainly not be impossible, just less convenient, and it is not entirely unfair as faction aligned players will also encounter similar challenges. I suppose a Karavan player will be in a disadvantage in leveling his jungle forage also.

It seems reasonable to me that the Kami and the Karavan would want to give their supporters an advantage because of their willingness to commit to their cause. And such commitments aren't really very different to me from other sorts that, say, leveling your PR, requires, such as spending countless hours grinding, waiting for weather, avoiding aggros, KP, bandits, etc. There are certainly players who want to level their PR but cannot take those either...

But Atys would be a very sad world if less work and less sacrifices mean more rewards.

Looking forward to the changes,