If we ever have to do this again..

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iwojimmy
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If we ever have to do this again..

Post by iwojimmy »

I realise its too late to change any mechanisms in the temple construction event, but I am going to throw these ideas in here anyway.

One problem I have with this war is the hypocrisy of the Kami position.. the evil Karavan are raping the land to build a temple.. so we must do the same thing ! Within the context of the game it is fair enough for the Karavan side to stripmine these regions to accomplish their goals, especially since the regions are not our homes anyway. But the Kami cannot justify creating a mirror image with changed names.

For this to be an idealogical war, there must be real differences in the ideologies. And from the point of view of story development, neither side can be 'wrong'.

So, lets actually bring some of the rhetoric into real game affecting play.
The sources mined to create the Karavan Temples should become PERMANENTLY depleted, and the terrain above them turned into barren wasteland, forcing the miners to keep exploiting new areas (probably deplete them on some fraction of Kami Tolerance level, not just 60 - 90 mats :p )

And the Temples to Ma Duk should ..grow, based on the number of souls its worshippers feed to it. Karavan worshippers slain by its followers, loyal servants giving their lives for the cause... all the same to the immaterial entity that rules the Kami. Probably involve the crafters in 'binding' the souls into the building, and have the diggers produce a lower quantity of mats just to keep them involved. Justifying digging for the Kami exceeds my doublethink ability :D . Any Kami digger who depletes a source should be doing damage to the Kami progress, in fact any source being depleted could harm the Kami temples.

This would allow conflict on a different level, with Karavan diggers deliberately destroying the land in order to harm Ma-Duk, or avoiding the zone entirely so no souls can be fed to it. (although the Kamists can still sacrifice their own... )
Gillayne
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jamela
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by jamela »

(Dammit! One of those Kami-followers finally saw through our cunning ruse to convert them to our ways)

I love your suggestions, iwojim, and environmental effects of foraging were mentioned at London RL, for general introduction across Atys. Sometime.
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grimjim
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by grimjim »

iwojimmy wrote:And the Temples to Ma Duk should ..grow, based on the number of souls its worshippers feed to it. Karavan worshippers slain by its followers, loyal servants giving their lives for the cause... all the same to the immaterial entity that rules the Kami. Probably involve the crafters in 'binding' the souls into the building, and have the diggers produce a lower quantity of mats just to keep them involved. Justifying digging for the Kami exceeds my doublethink ability :D . Any Kami digger who depletes a source should be doing damage to the Kami progress, in fact any source being depleted could harm the Kami temples.
There's zero in game evidence or actual lore besides propaganda that Ma-Duk devours souls though. Maybe there could be tending actions, or perhaps some mission mat demands that the plant temple could need to 'grow' that could be met on lower levels than the orgy of digging.

You know, the easiest way the Kami could have stopped the KAravan in this would have been by applying KT to their digs :P
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iwojimmy
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by iwojimmy »

grimjim wrote:There's zero in game evidence or actual lore besides propaganda that Ma-Duk devours souls though. Maybe there could be tending actions, or perhaps some mission mat demands that the plant temple could need to 'grow' that could be met on lower levels than the orgy of digging.

You know, the easiest way the Kami could have stopped the KAravan in this would have been by applying KT to their digs :P
The idea was that both sides were right about the others 'evillness', so the only 'true' facts are the enemies propaganda :D

its one of those post-modern cynicism things, I guess :p
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grimjim
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by grimjim »

iwojimmy wrote:The idea was that both sides were right about the others 'evillness', so the only 'true' facts are the enemies propaganda :D

its one of those post-modern cynicism things, I guess :p
Its one of the things that disappoints me TBH, there's been plenty of in game stuff to point out that the Karavan have a bad side, but not much for the Kami.
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gudule
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by gudule »

grimjim wrote:Its one of the things that disappoints me TBH, there's been plenty of in game stuff to point out that the Karavan have a bad side, but not much for the Kami.
The kami chat yesterday night was full off the nastiest / ugliest / lowest / thoughts i have ever heard : Kamis yelling that they would have another Kami killed by their Kara friends just because they disagree with him... that is so mean and low...
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grimjim
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by grimjim »

gudule wrote:The kami chat yesterday night was full off the nastiest / ugliest / lowest / thoughts i have ever heard : Kamis yelling that they would have another Kami killed by their Kara friends just because they disagree with him... that is so mean and low...
That's a RL bad side though, not quite the same thing, but yes, it was moronic.
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philu
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by philu »

gudule wrote:The kami chat yesterday night was full off the nastiest / ugliest / lowest / thoughts i have ever heard : Kamis yelling that they would have another Kami killed by their Kara friends just because they disagree with him... that is so mean and low...
Oh dear oh dear, I'm glad I didn't have the Kami chat displayed then.

That's exactly the kind of moronic ganker rubbish I was worried Nevrax's headlong dash towards PvP would bring to the game. So much for the mature, friendly community. :(

Back on topic though, some interesting ideas there Iwo. Very good point about the Kami stance. It certainly doesn't fit with their supposed love of the land to advocate strip mining. I also agree with Jyudas that we need to see more 'bad' stuff from the Kami if the story is to have balance (and continue to mirror the plot of Babylon 5 ;) ).
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grimjim
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by grimjim »

philu wrote:That's exactly the kind of moronic ganker rubbish I was worried Nevrax's headlong dash towards PvP would bring to the game. So much for the mature, friendly community. :(
to be fair it does seem to only be, really, a handful (or two) of people on each side that are really and truly problematic. That's, perhaps, 20 people all told (not sure about the US/Nighttime hours). The problem is that it only takes a small number to cause problems.
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Jyudas
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philu
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Re: If we ever have to do this again..

Post by philu »

grimjim wrote:to be fair it does seem to only be, really, a handful (or two) of people on each side that are really and truly problematic. That's, perhaps, 20 people all told (not sure about the US/Nighttime hours). The problem is that it only takes a small number to cause problems.
Well it's good to hear it's only a minority but, as you say, it only takes a few... :(

Let's hope they STAY a minority. :)
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All posts are In Person (Not IC, not OOC, not Rp, just me!)

Chasing the DING!
katriell wrote:You can't "complete" the mainland. If one thinks one has seen or done everything there, one is kidding oneself. But be prepared to "get out what you put in," because the mainland does not coddle or hold hands.
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