Where is the pvp challenge?

[mtsmith]

edit...........

Thought you were quitting...buhbye

[grimjim]

Most of us fighting and defending on the Karavan side are not really too interested in digging and crafting. Obviously, I have nothing against it as I need finished goods as much as the next guy, but I'm not interested at all in digging quality 50 materials for minimal honor or recognition when I can fight for a small period of time per day and stay in the top 20.

That doesn't even remotely accomplish the aim of the scenario though, which is to construct the temples. In fact as one of the more notorious gankers involved in the fighting your statements ring rather hollow.

Even digging level 50 materials you would be earning far more honour than you do by slowing down _everyone's_ digging with pointless fighting and attacks. Defending is one thing, charging out and attacking people is another.

Jyudas, your references to "problem children" is actually a little offensive. In all truthfulness, you should be referring to yourself in the same manner, since you have been very vocal about ignoring directive the gods (Nevrax) and doing as you please.

I have seen little to dissuade me from that point of view on these people. The rallying cry of the attackers and gankers on both sides doesn't seem to be 'For Jena!' or 'For Ma-Duk!' but rather "I'm bored! LOLZ!".

What better term is there for people so selfish in their own desires, incapable of speaking other that in txt speak (even that often misspelt) and with no regard for what their fellow players seem to prefer? It really IS only a handful of people (at any one time) on either side causing the problems and throwing hissy fits. The label works.

As to me, this is a role-playing game. The goals and the ways your character reacts are not prescripted like a Final Fantasy cutscene, nor are your choices limited as they are in KOTOR to lightside/obnoxious side.

While Nevrax has failed to provide a legitimate third-way or a role for neutral players this does not mean that one (well, at least some people) are incapable of independent thought and the construction of their own conclusions.

To me, IC and OOC, the war makes zero sense in terms of the lore, background, the game as played up until now and IMO people diving headlong into fanaticism are being uncreative and doing themselves a disservice with what I consider poor RP. Now, so long as that doesn't interfere with me too much I don't have a problem with that, play how you choose, but in a PvP environment one type of player - generally the problem child - is empowered with the ability to negatively impact another person's play experience and choices - something that is against the game's own CoC and Courtesy Policy yet not being enforced!

Nevrax has failed on two scores - providing a truly inclusive event and in providing a convincing lead up to hostilities, but that doesn't mean players can't show each other a little courtesy and consideration and, indeed, a lot of them HAVE come to this point. Leaving alone the people who just want to dig and complete the event or who don't want anything to do with PvP and leaving the back and forth of battle to those who enjoy such a thing. Even in a PvP context there are players on both 'sides' who have that basic level of courtesy for each other.

Argue your case IC and I'll argue strongly against in IC, argue it OOC and I'll argue back OOC but don't run around ganking and causing issues and then tell me I'm the person causing the problems - that shows a distinct lack of understanding.

Meanwhile, the rest of us have had a great time attacking and defending against the Kami forces. What I've truly found interesting is that a preacher of peace, one who has proclaimed that he is a homist, a pacifist, and a life loving happy hippy, is seen participating daily in that which he claims to loath. All I can say is "Bravo!"; hypocracy suits you well, friend.

Corrections: Preacher of peace in this instance, hominist is correct, pacifist isn't, life loving hippy isn't (necessarily).

OOC: I am participating in the event because it is all there is and at this stage I'll risk eating a <dung> sandwich just for the bread around the filling. This is all we have, however flawed, and I refuse to miss out or let down my guild by completely not participating - plus I think it is best that a temple on each side gets built so everyone can get the goodies.

IC: Faith-based wars are unprofitable and never truly end once they get going. They're bad news for a mercenary as well, since the army of the faithful will work for nothing. This conflict is bad news socially and financially. Having no allegience to the Karavan and no longer any to the Kami after this turn of events Jyudas' loyalty is to homin of all kinds. He believes that the 'gods' will reveal knowledge to us through their temples, knowledge that can be used for the betterment of all homin and, potentially, in the future, can be used against the 'gods' themselves to free homin from the yoke of their control. Also, rewards have been promised and it seems devices, powers or other capabilities will be needed all the more in the future. This is even what Tryton (rather disappointingly) encouraged hominists to do - to assist the 'underdog'. There would also be some reasons of patriotism - he is a Fyros after all, even if Dexton is acting like Alien Space Bats have taken over his brain - and the idea of the better Kami temple being in Pyr is agreeable to him.

In summary, there are plenty of reasons and no hypocrisy, since I'm not fighting save when attacked, nor rezzing the problem children from the Kami side when they fall in battle.

Also Jool (or Sxarlet, or any of the people who have left) bring a hundred times more to than game than a lot of others do, you should bemoan their loss, not encourage it.

In summary, participating on

[sipanek]

I believe that the rankings system with honour points etc is the one big thing that might cause PvP to get out of hand. If there are no honour points people might be more inclined to actually protect their diggers, etc. Actually if their would be negative consequences to one faction having a lot of more points this might work as well. You dont want the enemy to be able to get a lot of easy points from killing your diggers.

Another major thing lacking is decent organisation. With time im sure this will become necessary as your oponents get better. But right now often it seems people run around almost like in a UT match and nuke whoever happens to be in their way. This will cause friction as seemingly random kamikaze attacks are not really fun for anyone except the one doing them.

This beeing said i still think theres a lot of fun to be had. I dont have many honour points, i still cant dig q100 mats so spend most of my time careplanning. When theres a fight coming on i try to heal my team mates as best i can with my very limited skills. But even though i cant make much of a difference im having lots of fun.

People have generally been very friendly to me, noone has complained about having to res me every 20 seconds. Im sure my presence in the old lands helps the enemy obsessed with honour points more then it helps my friends. But still im allowed to tag along and have fun. And this is something i believe is truly wonderful about this community.

The original question was "where is the pvp challenge"?. I think the real challenge will come with time. As people get more organised we will see better battles that at the same time make more sense. When we are good enough you wont really achieve anything without thinking things through first, people will be to well defended for that.

Right now though i think one of the greatest challenges concerning pvp is the one our diplomats have tackled. Given the circumstances achieving peace for just a few hours is pretty impressive. Hopefully there will always be a place for diplomacy in combination with military might.

I would agree that full PvP instead of FvF would probably make things a bit better. As some have suggested it opens up for "punishing" people and at the same time makes it possible for people to roleplay traitors etc. Things that perhaps arent "nice" but make for more interesting gameplay none the less.

[michielb]

Thought you were quitting...buhbye

The issue at hand here is whether or not we respect our fellow SoR Players enought to allow them to play the game the way they like and nothing symbolises that lake of respect some players show towards others better than the above quote.

You have the right to be a selfish brat Spiff just don't be surprised if people hate you for it...

[rushin]

The issue at hand here is whether or not we respect our fellow SoR Players enought to allow them to play the game the way they like

lmao, what fantastic irony. You, Jyudas, et al are more guilty of this than anyone else, and the strange thing is you're so blinded by your own rhetoric you don't see it.

[michielb]

lmao, what fantastic irony. You, Jyudas, et al are more guilty of this than anyone else, and the strange thing is you're so blinded by your own rhetoric you don't see it.

And I am restricting you..... how?

[kostika]

lmao, what fantastic irony. You, Jyudas, et al are more guilty of this than anyone else, and the strange thing is you're so blinded by your own rhetoric you don't see it.

We're more than happy to let the PVPers have their fun. Sure go for it. Have your PVP. The problem here is others being forced to PVP when they don't want to if they wanna be part of this event. We're forced to play the PVP game even if we don't like it or don't want to due to the zone structure.

And yes we are forced. Many of us want to be part of this event. We are gritting our teeth and doing what we can. But each day someone doesn't come back to the old lands because they're tired of being forced into the pvp game they don't want to play.

[stijn]

We're more than happy to let the PVPers have their fun. Sure go for it. Have your PVP. The problem here is others being forced to PVP when they don't want to if they wanna be part of this event. We're forced to play the PVP game even if we don't like it or don't want to due to the zone structure.

And yes we are forced. Many of us want to be part of this event. We are gritting our teeth and doing what we can. But each day someone doesn't come back to the old lands because they're tired of being forced into the pvp game they don't want to play.

Come and dig to the low lvl mats, it's safe, no aggro's and you wont get nuked every 5 mins (happened 2 times in 4 hours yesterday I think)

[grimjim]

lmao, what fantastic irony. You, Jyudas, et al are more guilty of this than anyone else, and the strange thing is you're so blinded by your own rhetoric you don't see it.

We can't force you, we can't 'physically' interdict your play experience in a negative fashion. All we HAVE is 'rhetoric' but no amount of good RP or cogent argument seems to get through to people who are determined to have their fun at the expense of that of others.

We want to allow for all types of play, equally and alongside each other - each given fair play and accomodated for. We don't have a problem with PVP per se, only with it being forcibly applied to those who don't want it.

I really don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp here.

[sipanek]

We want to allow for all types of play, equally and alongside each other - each given fair play and accomodated for. We don't have a problem with PVP per se, only with it being forcibly applied to those who don't want it.

I really don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp here.

Well, you dont want to just be left alone and play the game your way. You want to be well known, have the most honour points etc and still dont do any pvp. Of course you can play this game without beeing forced to fight. If its not worth making the small sacrifice of not going to the old lands how important is it really? (And you can even go to the old lands and dig without participating in PvP except the odd gank every three hours or so. Not really a big problem.)

If you only play half the game its not strange at all that you will not be the leader within every single field of the game. The people that do lots of pvp have to accept that they will fall behind in every other way then some rankings board on a website.

I mean seriously, its not like any honour points rewards will be worth the trouble. They cant let the "winners" get any great advantage, that would be more or less insane. With the small playerbase they really cant afford to alienate the 99% of the players that dont get any serious amounts of honourpoints. And if you cant live without some honorary title, signed coffe mug or whatever they come up with you really dont have the right to complain about getting ganked now and then.