[DEV] The Fame System – Second Edition

[gwythion]

Something else to wonder about:

If a Zorai citizen has a max cap of 0 Tryker fame, does that mean certain rites handed out or obtained in the Lakleands won' t work or be obtainable? (requires 38 Tryker fame iirc). And vice versa of course.
And what would happen to those that already have those specific rites?

First reading of this I thought it would be a one time problem that could be dealt with as part of the patching problem but it is not. This issue will be true everytime someone changes alignment. Seems to me that either the code that is run when you change alignment will strip you of "invalid" rites or it wont. It depends on how metaphysical Nevrax want to be about the game. It may be that you keep rites gained based on Race missions but lose those based on Cult. The cult ones could be lost due to divine intervention or mystic powers or techical gagetry.

[philu]

So many questions, so few (i.e. none) answers.

I do so hope that the reason there have been no answers is Nevrax have fallen asleep. I hope it isn't due to them furiously running about saying "Oh darn, that's another issue we didn't think about!"

[marct]

Something else to wonder about:

If a Zorai citizen has a max cap of 0 Tryker fame, does that mean certain rites handed out or obtained in the Lakleands won' t work or be obtainable? (requires 38 Tryker fame iirc). And vice versa of course.
And what would happen to those that already have those specific rites?

First reading of this I thought it would be a one time problem that could be dealt with as part of the patching problem but it is not. This issue will be true everytime someone changes alignment. Seems to me that either the code that is run when you change alignment will strip you of "invalid" rites or it wont. It depends on how metaphysical Nevrax want to be about the game. It may be that you keep rites gained based on Race missions but lose those based on Cult. The cult ones could be lost due to divine intervention or mystic powers or techical gagetry.

I see this as the whole point, or one of the major points of this. It will highly reward those highly associated with a civilization or cult a few very cool things(only from the civilization they Adore, and a bit from it's favorite neighbor. For someone who chooses to be Neutral they gets cool things to a certain level from EVERY culture (missing the super cool things). For those that flip-flop and work fame to death(See note later) They can earn the rites from every civilization/cult to whatever level they work it, and the system does not penalize flip-flopers.

I really see no need to take away things you have earned (rites, stanzas, plans, etc.)


FAME needs to be more than missions or killing tribes. It needs to be every action you do, or at least more than today for this system to work as well as it seems. Why do we go hunt plods, to Lvl. What if you had to get missions to go hunt or you didn't get XP? More like we need 100 gingos, 50 torbaks, and 200 cuttlers killed, take a team and accomplish this goal and you will be handsomely rewarded with 'X'. Or if you got the missions, you got rewarded at the end somehow, maybe faster XP gain, or something. You could maybe do partial credit on these things. I really think the governments and the cults, and the Guilds should have a lot more control on the direction of the world.

Just continuing the discussion,

Noin.

[gwythion]

I see this as the whole point, or one of the major points of this. It will highly reward those highly associated with a civilization or cult a few very cool things(only from the civilization they Adore, and a bit from it's favorite neighbor. For someone who chooses to be Neutral they gets cool things to a certain level from EVERY culture (missing the super cool things). For those that flip-flop and work fame to death(See note later) They can earn the rites from every civilization/cult to whatever level they work it, and the system does not penalize flip-flopers.

I really see no need to take away things you have earned (rites, stanzas, plans, etc.)

For nation/race related rites etc I agree 100%. I would feel that they represent learnt knowledge.

However at the moment one of the big reasons that my characters are non-believers even if they are aligned for other reasons to one cult or the other is the basic lack of any sense that there are gods. Yes there are powerful forces at work in the world but that is not the same thing. Losing some abilites because you no longer believe in your god as much as you did would it seem to me make the god aspect more concrete. If you do not lose the abilities as you no longer have the appropriate fame then to me it would give more force to the claim that these are not gods as once they have given you knowledge they cannot take it away.

FAME needs to be more than missions or killing tribes. It needs to be every action you do, or at least more than today for this system to work as well as it seems. Why do we go hunt plods, to Lvl. What if you had to get missions to go hunt or you didn't get XP? More like we need 100 gingos, 50 torbaks, and 200 cuttlers killed, take a team and accomplish this goal and you will be handsomely rewarded with 'X'. Or if you got the missions, you got rewarded at the end somehow, maybe faster XP gain, or something. You could maybe do partial credit on these things. I really think the governments and the cults, and the Guilds should have a lot more control on the direction of the world.

Just continuing the discussion,

Noin.

Agree I 100% and would include in that the ability of players to overthrow governments not to their liking. I hoped that outposts would start to address some of these issues which is why I am disappointed that they are so closely linked to that which shall not be named.

[vguerin]

I really see no need to take away things you have earned (rites, stanzas, plans, etc.)

I would have a serious problem with losing anything I have earned and paid for... literally and figuratively. If their new content follows some of these silly rules they plan to implement, that is fine. Taking away anything I had to work for (and pay to play) will not earn them much favor with me and surely many others.

[gwythion]

Are there any Kami or Karavan rites, special bricks or anything in existance at the moment?

If there are not then they could have my suggestion re cults without someone losing something they had earnt under the current rules.

Afterall if someone stops believing in their god there should be some consequences should there not.

[sidusar]

I would have a serious problem with losing anything I have earned and paid for... literally and figuratively. If their new content follows some of these silly rules they plan to implement, that is fine. Taking away anything I had to work for (and pay to play) will not earn them much favor with me and surely many others.

Yep, my point exactly. It sounds like I'm going to loose over 150 points of personal fame with the civilisations, and possibly more fame with the tribes and some rite rewards as well. I really hope I've understood this wrong. It's not just that all the time spent getting that fame would go to waste. There's also the issue that if they do this, that means I can't trust anymore that they'll allow me to keep what I earn. What guarantee will I have that they won't at some point in the future introduce a change to the skill system that causes me to loose 200 levels?

[blaah]

Yep, my point exactly. It sounds like I'm going to loose over 150 points of personal fame with the civilisations, and possibly more fame with the tribes and some rite rewards as well. I really hope I've understood this wrong.

ahh, but YOU have a CHOICE whether you want to lose those hard earned fame points or not

The described changes aren't without consequences on your current fame; you will have choices to make - choose a nation and a cult, or stay neutral. To give you the time to think about it, all existing characters and guilds will be put in as special status, for both citizenship and cult: the unspecified status.

Unspecified status
A character or a guild in unspecified status is considered as neutral by the game mechanisms. While in this status, you keep your fame values unchanged and aren't subject to any cap. However, while in this state, you can't gain or loose fame. Additionally, a character can't switch to another status when his guild is also in this state.

this does not say "for now, but in future this option will be gone". so you could stay unspecified status forever.
staying out from future rites/events will be you choice again if you choose to remain in "unspecified status"

[michielb]

ahh, but YOU have a CHOICE whether you want to lose those hard earned fame points or not


this does not say "for now, but in future this option will be gone". so you could stay unspecified status forever.
staying out from future rites/events will be you choice again if you choose to remain in "unspecified status"

Thanks I needed a good laugh

[sidusar]

this does not say "for now, but in future this option will be gone". so you could stay unspecified status forever.
staying out from future rites/events will be you choice again if you choose to remain in "unspecified status"

That's like offering me the choice of capping my skills at 150 or completely taking away my ability to gain levels.