What views do you hold on the matter?

[rhynox]

Given the recent issues that everyone has had given the pulling of kinchers which of the following is acceptable?


A. Pull the Kinchers back on your own faction and pray you get rez'd afterwards and they don't get wiped.

B. Pull the Kinchers onto the enemy faction and hope you get killed by a player and not the kincher.

C. Stand there and die by the kincher and do not pull it at all and pray you get rez'd and it doesn't just move onto the next closest target.

I have had many a discussion over these issues and have possibly lost a good friend over the whole dragging aggro issue. I want to see what the forums community feels is acceptable in this case, because in every situation above the chance of getting DP is there. I have had my share of DP, in fact every night I go to AD I am partially DP free at the begining and DP full when I log. I don't mind only because it's just DP and I'll be getting honor points anyway even with the DP, it's not like I'm trying to level anything in AD as it is.

[iwojimmy]

from a RP perspective, the Kitin are the ultimate enemy, aiding them or using them against Homins is treachery of the worst sort, regardless of any squabble between our allies and 'military advisers'.

from a personal perspective, I still have levels to gain and DP interferes with that. I dont appreciate DP and dont expect others to enjoy getting it either.

from a practical perspective, if they are attacking me and there are red dots nearby, I very likely will try to hand them on to the reds. After all, the reds might be able to defeat the kinchers, and they cant heal me. I dont go out and deliberately pick up aggro, and as a healer/digger Im usually at the back of the line anyway, so my moral convictions are not put to the test all that often.

[michielb]

When you attract aggro you either have your team deal with it, or if you know they can't or if you don't have a team, you'll be a man about itdie and take the dp. Ypu do NOT under any circumstance drag aggro unto unsuspection players not EVEN in a PvP setting!


Failure to comply WILL make you both a ganker and a griefer.

So if you get aggro and there are others around you will make a serious attempt to drag your add AWAY from them.

[kazaam31]

D: Feer the kincher to the karavans or pull them into them and run away

[sx4rlet]

This aggro-dragging has got me a bit dazzled.

By now, I think a lot of people know I am not really into PvP. (which does not mean I never do it, or never have done it.)

For me, aggro-dragging would be a fair tactic. It is just a clever way of using the environment against your 'enemies'. If I could lay out traps, blow up bridges, or anything else, I would do so too.
It is not that I like giving DP to others, not at all, but it is a way to make at least a try to kill the 'enemy' for a low lever melee / nuker, as there is no level restriction for PvP in this game.

As I noticed the PvP-ers all are very against it, and for me the PvP not very nice implemented in Ryzom, I will not do so. But nevertheless, I find it strange that it is found unfair, while other action are not.

(BTW, aggro-dragging on harvesters, because they are on 'your' spot is something else. Just wait your turn or take another source.)

[holina]

Imho, aggro dragging is perfectly ok in PvP/FvF areas. Even against you own faction in FvF since you might wish to fight against some of them or all of them (playing an aggressive neutral role who wishes to act against both factions springs to mind aswell as working as an undercover saboteur) and this is atm the only way to do it in the new zones, since you can't attack your own people or help the "enemy" with heals/rezzes.

People might not chear for you for doing it (and I think I'm being mild here ), but that's the risk you are taking.

Only problem I see with this is the DP factor. Either you shouldn't get DP for being killed by aggro mobs in FvF area or you should get DP when killed by a player aswell. Both solutions seem fine, current implementation is flawed imho.

But feel free to use it anyway, if the developers wanted it to work otherwise they wouldn't have designed it this way I guess

[sebron]

I would just likr to say a few nights ago we were in a heated battle with the kami by the shell and one of the karavan had a kincher spawn on her. She hit her inval insted of running to the kami withi it she ran over by the hills with it. After she went down i ran over to get her back up hopeing i had time because the kami were coming on strong. Well it took 4 cast with doubles (THANKS NEVAX!) just to get her on her feet. Then yes you geust it we went down. That was very brave of her to do that my hat gose off to you... sorry i diden't get your name. There should be honor points for that. AND NO ONE GOT DP ON EITHER SIDE!

[gillest]

Running away from Kinchers has been part of the game for a long time

Now if u run toward ur own camp , obviously u are trying to get some helps, not to kill ur ppl.
I even ran with a Kinch behind me in plains toward harvest spot where Kami where harving, arriving in their range, i turned slightly and ran back and forward (with pick in hand) to try escape kincher and to try not to pull it toward them.
Result, they killed it, I survived, apologised , explaining I would not pull anyway but was trying to save me bum
None felt agro, we all went back harving.

So i would say 90% of time you can see if its intentional or not.
Intentional I agree should nt be allowed..

[dc77066]

During the first night (pre-EP2 corrective patch) I noticed you couldn't get far without aggro. Being in forage gear I went down fast. I tried to run to the Karavan camp or away from the harvesters. I may have pulled aggro onto my team mates, my commrades or my predefined "enemies." I understand this falls under the "running for you life" not the intentional pulling of aggro.

Later that night after waves of kincher was pulled upon the Karavan positions until we were blocked into our camp. I had racked up some impressive DP because I refused to yeild. But what set me off and ruined the experience for me was some griefer on region going "I really love giving Karavan DP".

I am NOT saying that one group was doing it and another wasn't. I was digging I only saw what happened in my tiny 125m circle.

Getting PK'd/ganked/killed by another player = no DP.
Getting killed by aggro = DP.

These aren't baby kinchers we are talking about. These kinchers don't give up the chase very quickly. They don't go down easily either.

The strategy on the battlefield turned from trying to control the mat areas to trying to control the kincher spawns. Last night every warrior that came off the hill had a kincher in tow. Once the kincher wiped everyone the enemy mages walked in and rezz'ed their fallen comrades and their diggers pulled from the active sources.

I can't bring myself to agree that this is what was intended. I understand the kinchers are there to force us to band mages, fighters and harvestors together to secure the mats (otherwise there would be just an army of harvestors out there). I'm not thrilled that they are all purple since an orange kincher can still bring me down. DP normally doesn't bother me.

Some suggested that DP be turned off. Most argued that this would increase the aggro dragging. Some suggested that everyone gets DP if they don't get rezzed. And if you have DP you be restricted from entering the event zone. That would very bad for the harvesters 'cause the focus would be back on killing them. Others suggested safe zones for harvesters (no PvP), control points (you can't harvest a spot unless your faction holds its control point), reducing the PvP zone to only the sap/amber hill or even a "front line" approach where PvP is only allowed where the two opposing forces clash. Enemy combantants can't cross the line and forages can't access spots unless their forces push the line past them.

Plenty to choose from in addition to the scenerio was have now. Enter at your own risk. Or go grind some where else.

I HOPE that the "Third Way" really takes off. I tried to start something similar within HOPE but many are too bitter over the "no neutral content" and the introduction of EP2 being PvP-only focused that I couldn't bring them together (we tend to forget that Nevrax is a tiny shop and can only focus on one thing at a time - when they said we are revamping PvP, it was natural that the new content would be PvP focused. Just upset that it was exclusively PvP).

Anyway my ramble pool is depleted. Off to get it refilled.

Have Fun! Help Others! Keep HOPE alive!
-Raku

[d29565]

Hola Raku. I am do understand exactly what you are talking about. Not from a harvest PoV in this 'war' but from trying to protect harvesters as much as I can. The people pulling aggro towards the other faction are being childish and ignorant. I try to help out both sides as much as possible being that I am neutral and a member of HOPE. But when that other side pulls a kincher on me and gives me dp, on purpose no less, I find that really irritating. I am a level 250, as I'm sure many are. That dp tends to rack up.
If I want to just stop in the Old Lands and play there for an hour then go harvest in GoC so that I can finally get level 150-it ain't happening cause within that hour I have probably been killed about 3 times by kinchers-usually pulled from the opposing faction. I'm just SOL and so I do what I'm doing now-buy a kiss from Jena and log off for the weekend.
I think your ideas for the harvesters are good Raku. I doubt such things will ever be implemented but they are good ideas. I wish I could say more, but I must finish getting ready for work.
Peace be with you all.