Am I missing the point??

[morzyr]

What many players fail to see what some have been playing this game in a sertain way for long even over a year, with the currently "working" PvE way of playing.

Can you blame player for being upset then they have invested time in the char for over a Year
And now they need to think what all what time was really for nothing if they are forced to start playing in a way what not their style?

And the new players what still is under 100lvl fail to see what the fuss is all about cus they haveing their of the life still as most is quite easy under 100 and all is new, they need to get more feeling and time of the game to see the issus.

Ep2 or outposts many have been waiting for also, but fails to see the point of the war as the server has going to a higher stage there friendlyness to other player has be a major part for a LOOONG time and really wants back the kitin raids and so on.

If only nevrax could stop those childish way of "oh i can't tell you want's going to happen cus then i get beat'n by the devs" and just plainly expain in good way, what they want to do and how it works some time berfore they release it.
As they started in the spring, to do but now suddenly not doing any more.

Then i think players would not be so suprised to see the changes.

[mtsmith]

Yes you are.
Review the other threads for the full gist.

However, to summarise...

1 - Many of us feel that 'content' (particularly 'content' in the form of storyline advancement 'material' items, landscape changes etc) forcibly linked to a singular style/type/taste of play makes that style/type/taste of play in effect non-consensual. Therefore, while the PvP zone in question must be entered there is, in effect, no 'choice' at all. If you want to remain relevant and linked to the story. This also, incidentally, applies to PvP areas elsewhere.

2 - Many are very concerned about the increasing leaning towards PvP. A style and type of play that has seemed very much against the Ryzom ethos up to this point. They feel that this is a bad change and, in many ways, a betrayal and cheapening of the high goals of the game expressed previously.

3 - People also feel that this war does not fit the lore very well. This is open to interpretation but I'd tend to agree from my analysis. This has also lead to people wondering, sarcastically, whether the homin leaders have become goo corrupted/replaced by imposters/subjected to orbital mind control lasers/hypnotised by space bats.

4 - Ganking and other stupidity is going on.

5 - 'Honour' is earned for dishonourable behaviour.

6 - I really need to go to bed.

There's more though, your main point was the one of 'choice' which has been addressed many times before. Frankly those phrases 'You don't have to go there' and 'Its just a game' are making me want to track people down and OOCly PvP them

Everything you do in Atys is completely consentiual as you agree to continue playing every day. Whining about stuff in the forums only makes you look silly. I've said it before and I'll say it again: "...write your congressman." I'm sure he'll make the issue his top priority.

[blaah]

for me, PvP/FvF came too late to game.
it should have been full PvP/FvF from day 1 (with PvP flag on/off switch)

i mean. until EP2 arrived, everyone was nice, grouped and lvl'ed together.. and now those friends gonna nuke me in FvF zone knowing exactly that i dont fight back (i could, lvl 240+ ele, 190+melee).. repeatedly, over and over again. and they call it fun (do they want that i unsub from this game ?)

no more, default is no-rez/no help mode, only guildies and some others will get rez from me.

make full FvF in atys, opt-out should take a few RL weeks (or 1 week). opt-in a few min (maybe 30min ?)
make it now, dont delay it. ppl seems to want PvP. listen ppl nevrax

keep current FvF/PvP/GvG zones as they are, PvP flag has no efect in it

[iphdrunk]

for me, PvP/FvF came too late to game.
it should have been full PvP/FvF from day 1 (with PvP flag on/off switch)

i mean. until EP2 arrived, everyone was nice, grouped and lvl'ed together.. and now those friends gonna nuke me in FvF zone knowing exactly that i dont fight back (i could, lvl 240+ ele, 190+melee).. repeatedly, over and over again. and they call it fun (do they want that i unsub from this game ?)

no more, default is no-rez/no help mode, only guildies and some others will get rez from me.

make full FvF in atys, opt-out should take a few RL weeks (or 1 week). opt-in a few min (maybe 30min ?)
make it now, dont delay it. ppl seems to want PvP. listen ppl nevrax

keep current FvF/PvP/GvG zones as they are, PvP flag has no efect in it

I agree, to some extent, with this post. I have refrained from posting till things stabilize a bit. I have read all the posts, and understood most of the opinions regarding the PvP, episode 2 and so on, and there are a lot of good points here.

I will start by saying that one of the problems but also one of the biggest strenghts, is that the game started within a cooperative scenario, homins cooperating against a common foe. In this sense, one may say that conflict has always been there since release and that Kami/Karavan tensions were there. Right, but missing the point. From a gameplay point of view, PvP was completelly absent from the game, barred a buggy and incomplete duel system that basically allowed us to check if we were fast with the mouse, if we had luck with a random number generation and it our stanzas were 'optimized'. Later on the PvP roots were added, and so on. In other words, the kami/karavan conflict was absent during the day-to-day playing time, appearing only during RP events once a month, while we kept on saying "oh, yes, Kami will eat your soul" in public (while in the meantime we were disussing if you have some spare fung resin). After the event was over all back to our activities. It was as if homins went to a theater as actors to play a role in a piece within the game itself.

The low population, the mature community has made most players meet and play with each other regardless of race or faction. The gameplay didn't force you to attack a "horde" player and so on. I have friends from both sides, and 4 races. And the weird part here, is that, according to the background, these players must now be considered quite abrouptly as my death enemies. Also, the players are not simple "smart NPCs that think", just a name to target.... I know their habits, the last armor they got, their skills, etc.

If we remove the novelty, boredom, lack of cooperative high level content, and the context surrounding the deployment of episode 2, I think we are left kind in a incoherent state. The lack of coherency with background, at least for me, is clear. I had a lot of fun yesterday but, it was more as if, within game, all the friends that live together, hunt together , talk together, decided to go play a match of basketball/yuboball, a game, where the scores are the times homins go to "comma". A scenario, were all the homins stopped duing what they do to go participate in some kind of "Olympic War games".


It was like playing a Quake 3 minigame within Ryzom, or more precisely, as if in Ryzom, homins liked to play "paintball". I don't hate players while I play quake, and so on. There is no risk involved, the only think I can do is to stack points.... We only lacked a voice saying "you got the lead!". the main difference is that the PvP in Ryzom is seriousy mediocre. Get your hp armor, get your 97/97 or 100/100 amp, try to get the best jewles you can, and then target someone (don't worry, your spell will follow him if in range) and click nuke/nuke.... don't forget to goofy heal-jump, and to check if from time to time, the speed, MPA, and invul are active or not.

So, (although there is much to debate here) what if the game had been with PvP since day 1, with true Kami/Karavan conflict -- I don't know about you, but next time a Kami follower asks me for a light armor, even assumling we talk to each other, sounds like <avoid real life analogies> knocking on <avoid real life analogies>'s neighbor door and ask for a grenade so I can bomb you later -- well, we woulnd't have what at said at the beginning, Ryzom main strenght. We would be another clone game, in my opinion.

Also think about it.... If, according to what is said, the community is mature enough, we are all having great fun, lots of fun, then I say "let's go Open Full blown PvP!" right?. the community won't gank!! right? No one - maybe oooone rotten apple -- will kill the noobs at pyr, right? everything will remain in context. (please, don't tell me that having your swron enemy, that kills you on sight from 50m while you dig, crafting and chatting at Zora stables is normal, it isn't, from a lore /background point of view. It can be from a Quake3 minigame point of view)

Another point is.... we already had the Arena, basically a reduced Aelus Island if you want so.... why didn't we see daily guild versus guild battles? why was it always empty? why didn't all the really lovers of PvP go there basically and why was it unused? simple, because the Arena was *truly* consensual, and probably because it also takes some time to find balanced teams, and because if a team dies repeteadly, they'll get tired and leave. I may not agree with Jy on everything he says, but he has a point. Aelus was full yesterday because we knew there would be half-consensual PvP., we knew that there could be easy targets as harvesters digging. If it was truly consensual, why don't we have zones (at the edges, for example) of diggers minding their own business and the players that want to PvP fighting in the middle? because of human nature... we want the easy targets, we want to win, and we hate loosing. We can keep it nice, no trashtalking and avoid leet speak, we we all like winning, we hate losing (more conservative players will say they don't mind losing) and we like being 'at the top'. That's what the Ladder/ Stele monument is exploiting.

Finally, what is my conclusion? I have mixed feelings. I am worried, sometimes angry about some decisions, but I also enjoyed playing, of course (I never said I didn't).

Human nature is always present. If, according to the game background, I refuse to talk to enemies, I refuse to craft for them, I kill (I should say I try to kill) every single enemy I see, and rezzing is out of the question, and all this throught out Atys and all the players do the same, this will remain as friendly as it was. Do you think a player will consider me the same if
"Hello, do you craft armors"
"Sure here you are a q250 hp black excellent armor ! enjoy!"
or
"Hello, do you craft armors"
"Go away, you worshipper, the fact that you dare to talk to me I consider it an insult (ooc: eh, In ic )"

I seriously doubt it!

Why am I worried? as a lot of players have posted, because imagine that after a few hours, I am a bit tired, and I'd like to stop running around, I have a bit of headache, but I'd like to dig quietly *and participate in the construction of the temple, get honor points for my nice rewards* and precisely, it can be one of the times of the day where the other faction is more organized/outnumbering/powerful/skilled (delete as appropriate) and I won't be able to. Can I say in region "(ooc: folks, I had a lot of fun I am a bit tired, mind if I dig alone a bit?)" I tried

My position, for now, I am playing as I did a week ago, with limited Role Playing -- only the *nice* part of being a roleplayer -- , considering the PvP zones as the Olympic War games I mentioned. With all that has happened in game since release, I can not roleplay seriously in coherence with the lore background.


If, tomorrow, Kye or Whoever ask me to go hunt some bosses, I will put my pick down and go kill some....Maybe later we'll go to play Quake 3. After a day killing mean beasties, we can go play some paintball.... and scratch this Kami/Kara thing, it only is a means to know what side I am on and the color of my t-shirt.

Still digesting the whole thing,

[ajsuk]

Everything you do in Atys is completely consentiual as you agree to continue playing every day. Whining about stuff in the forums only makes you look silly. I've said it before and I'll say it again: "...write your congressman." I'm sure he'll make the issue his top priority.

dude.. you always crack me up!

[jinnear]

What dishonorable behavior? Killing homins from the oposite side? Isn't that the whole idea behind a War/PvP?...

I think alot of people are missing the point here... There is no honor in war... at all...

[grimjim]

I think alot of people are missing the point here... There is no honor in war... at all...

The Atys societies are not, yet, industrialised nations with a war 'machine'. As I suggested elsewhere, WWI is what killed off, finally, honour in battle in the real world.

[totnkopf]

I have refrained from posting on any of these multiple links on the same issue for two reasons. 1) been too busy actually enjoying the new land and 2) you'll notice that the same people who all along have been the voice behind the anti-pvp movement were the ones who started the threads (some of them minutes after the land opened up... which tells me they weren't even willing to give it a try) and would rather continue "squeeking the wheel" that they've had spinning all along.

so.. honor (or honour for our friends overseas).

The dishonourable part is where a person who spend more hours gaining lvl in elemental has a huge advantage over a person that has spend the same time digging.
What honour can be archieved in killing a homin that is in a game sense still a baby?

The honor found in killing the diggers is found in the fact that the diggers are the ultimate key in this race. They are the ones that supply the mats for the Kami/Karvan, and therefore stopping them from doing that is considered a great act to the faction you are working for. One could also say that dishonor is found in the fact that guards are never with the diggers. Instead they are taking part in the great wish-wash effect that goes on accross the middle of the map. one side starts winning, rushes the other side, gets killed or retreats, and other side begins the same cycle. so rather than saying "well, I'm a digger so I don't fire on me", try "I'm a digger, you're a nuker... come guard us while we dig". Throught out world war II, weapons factories and other such facilities that supplied the enemy forces were bombed. This is similar to the role of the digger. They are the ones building the temples, so they are the target of "bombing runs". You'll notice that not a lot of those factory workers came outside and said "I'm a pacifist! don't drop a bomb on me"...

A few guilds have worked together in a serious way to actually be productive towards the end goal. And I've been happily surprised at how many of the players simply work well as a whole group. There have been areas that were a lil rocky, but for the most part its been quite enjoyable.

[hugedan]

I think alot of people are missing the point here... There is no honor in war... at all...

Thats YOUR opinion. its not a fact.

[grimjim]

I have refrained from posting on any of these multiple links on the same issue for two reasons. 1) been too busy actually enjoying the new land and 2) you'll notice that the same people who all along have been the voice behind the anti-pvp movement were the ones who started the threads (some of them minutes after the land opened up... which tells me they weren't even willing to give it a try) and would rather continue "squeeking the wheel" that they've had spinning all along.

I spent all day yesterday and all night before in it (with a break yesterday for the in game pub meet). I will continue to concentrate on this event for as long as it lasts.

Please don't assign that blame or try to ascribe that attitude to me.

Also note that just because I'm participating does not mean that I like this, one bit, or want any more of it, or think it represents a good direction for the game.