2h Sword vs. 1h weapon + shield....thoughts?

[thebax]

For a larger party, where you'd want one person to be able to take damage better and tank at the expense of some damage, 1h blunt using max slow + shield + armor would make the best tank

I agree, but they'd have to make slow work as well as bleed first. Right now, it might, maybe, keep the mob from hitting you twice, if you use it every 5 seconds during the fight, which is a gigantic health/stam drain with a shield. For mobs that hit especially hard, but not as fast, it won't even prevent one hit.
And shields, as Sehracii said, are chancy at best. You have better odds trusting your character's life to affliction .

So, 1H blunt+shield+HA+slow should work as the best meatshield, but it doesn't yet.

[xenofur]

which is a gigantic health/stam drain with a shield.

which doesn't matter anymore in a big party, due to the patch.

[sidusar]

Unfortunately, the protection from a shield is all but useless. Testing naked except for shield against a creature that gives me good XP, I never saw ANY damage absoroption. Testing on something 150 levels lower than me, it absorbed ONCE IN A WHILE, maybe 25%-50% of the time at best.

I've never had such problems with shield protection. It works unreliable, that's true, but fighting against creatures my own level or even 30 levels above me, it works about 25%-50% of the time. Against creatures 100 levels below me, it works nearly all the time.

I do use a shield close to my melee level, maybe you're using one far above or below yours and it doesn't work as well because of that? Otherwise I have no idea why our experiences are so different

I agree, but they'd have to make slow work as well as bleed first. Right now, it might, maybe, keep the mob from hitting you twice, if you use it every 5 seconds during the fight, which is a gigantic health/stam drain with a shield. For mobs that hit especially hard, but not as fast, it won't even prevent one hit.

So, 1H blunt+shield+HA+slow should work as the best meatshield, but it doesn't yet.

Well, bleed and ignore armor both work to increase your damage, both by a factor of the base damage you inflict. If what Xavier said is true and slow will slow the target's attack by 10% always, regardless of inflicted damage or level difference, then I imagine making it more than 10% will make it too powerfull against boss creatures.
But yes, the effect is pretty much useless against normal creatures, even with the current heal spells.

No, it does work as the best meatshield, the difference between it and the second-best are simply negligible

[marct]

if you use it every 5 seconds during the fight, which is a gigantic health/stam drain with a shield.

Which is why you should be using a buckler and not a full shield. The malus is soooo much less, and the parry is not that much less.

I can make a +20 parry buckler, and it only has a +10 malus. Versus a +30 parry full, and +50 malus. You tell me which is better!!!

Noin. (P.S. I am a Buckler-smith!!!)

[sidusar]

I can make a +20 parry buckler, and it only has a +10 malus. Versus a +30 parry full, and +50 malus. You tell me which is better!!!

I'm a little short on excellent/supreme parry-mats, how much parry bonus would I get on a buckler using supreme harvested mats? Tama/silverweed for example? And how are the protection factors?

Like the original subject of the thread was, a 2-handed sword currently gives a max of +20 parry too, same as a 1-handed weapon with a buckler. The 2-handed sword also does more damage at a lesser stam/health cost. So what's the point in using a buckler anymore?

[thebax]

Well, bleed and ignore armor both work to increase your damage, both by a factor of the base damage you inflict. If what Xavier said is true and slow will slow the target's attack by 10% always, regardless of inflicted damage or level difference, then I imagine making it more than 10% will make it too powerfull against boss creatures.
But yes, the effect is pretty much useless against normal creatures, even with the current heal spells.

No, it does work as the best meatshield, the difference between it and the second-best are simply negligible

The 10% is ok, but having it work for as long as bleed does would make it useful. And if the meatshield isn't spending all their time using slow, and uses increased damage instead (providing they are using accurate attack, you have to hit the mob to slow it) the mob will drop faster, protecting the party better (dead mobs do less damage), as well as saving everyone time and wear on their gear.

True, it is down to play style, but for now, from a purely mathmatical point of view, 1H slashing or piercing weapons +shield make for better meatshields than 1H blunt + shield.

As for using bucklers, they look pretty (I can make all the spec ones), but even with the lowered malus, they are not as good as large shields. Same as the difference between medium armor and heavy armor. And, as stated above, the changes to 2H sword pretty much render them useless entirely.

[iwojimmy]

meant to check all the numbers, but forgot
1h weopon and shield gives higher penalty than 2h weopon. combined with HA, I think my penalty is 200.. when you multiply that by the higher hpm, using a shield will kill you faster than the mob will. It isnt the creature doing the damage, its your own stanzas. I tried telling that to someone using lvl 250 stanzas on level 100 dagger fighting, but....

the answer is to use default attack, as much as possible. High cost actions are ok if you have a healer looking after you, but soloing requires a more conservative approach.

[aelvana]

...If what Xavier said is true and slow will slow the target's attack by 10% always, regardless of inflicted damage or level difference, then I imagine making it more than 10% will make it too powerfull against boss creatures...

Are you kidding me? Slow attack is 10% and that's it? What all did he say about it? I really hope there's more to it than that...

Forget what I said about slow making you a better tank -- I was assuming around 50% slow.

[vguerin]

How many lvl 250 1h melees are out there?

It's too bad my comp died and I only get short runs on my wifes as I could test some of this stuff with you all.

Of course I would want to test with a level 250 2h/1h fighter because that is the base I have always used for balance between skills. Prior to this patch I can say that I have never been pwned by a 2h melee fighter (nor 1h). Rarely could a 2h fighter best me regularly, and typically we'd die together or it'd be dual wield for teh win.

I'd love for a bunch of us to do a comprehensive test, we know that the dev's haven't done one

[lillaryn]

I'd be happy to throw my spear versus your sword DT......I'll make sure I get off my butt and finish my 250 so its a fair fight