[DEV] - In Development-Section Updated, Aug 24th

[26101987]

While mob die before reach team - tank is unneeded.

[sofiaoak]

While mob die before reach team - tank is unneeded.

Yep. If not, it's one dead mage.

[petej]

While mob die before reach team - tank is unneeded.

You can always make Melee + Healer only teams or find mobs which are more susceptible to Melee damage as opposed to Elem

[mmatto]

Mage and fighters, both can't tank without healer. Healer is the key for tanking, not the damage what elementist does or fighters armours. Fighters armour just give healer longer time table for healing. Elementalist just shorten the fight with high damage, but if in tank position, they require a lot of healing.

Yes, and that really shows too strong healing power. Mage can tank with healer easily, that is not even a problem for healer. And that is not problem for mage dishing out damage.

[sofiaoak]

Yes, and that really shows too strong healing power. Mage can tank with healer easily, that is not even a problem for healer. And that is not problem for mage dishing out damage.

It's not that easy to heal tank, who ever it is. Of cause, what kind of enemy is and how many, has huge part on it.

TRUE tanks in Ryzom are the healers. This is important to undertand, no-one else can do the job at the moment. Mobs just do too much damage to anyone else take it in close combat. You can easyly notice, this when You are in teams. When there is no healer, most party members think twize before attacking anyting. Usually those who can tank without healing have some other skill very high.

So if they lower healing possibilities, who gonna do the tanking job?

[thebax]

It's not that easy to heal tank, who ever it is. Of cause, what kind of enemy is and how many, has huge part on it.

TRUE tanks in Ryzom are the healers. This is important to undertand, no-one else can do the job at the moment. Mobs just do too much damage to anyone else take it in close combat. You can easyly notice, this when You are in teams. When there is no healer, most party members think twize before attacking anyting. Usually those who can tank without healing have some other skill very high.

So if they lower healing possibilities, who gonna do the tanking job?

Agreed.

OOC:

[jared96]

Looking at the reason and the solution .... the logic which determined the solution is seriously flawed. In the statement below, the reason given for the armor change is to make warriors more resistant as compared to the other classes. It actually does the opposite

"We would slightly increase the absorption limits on armors, to help allow warriors to be a bit more resistant, and to give more impact to crafting.

· For light armors, the absorption range would change from 5%-15% to 5%-25%.
· For medium armors, the absorption range would change from 20%-30% to 20%-40%.
· For heavy armors, the absorption range would change from 45%-55% to 40%-60%."

Again, the goal is stated to make warriors "more resistant".

So warriors average absorption went from 50% to 50% - no change.
Maged resistance went from an average of 10% to 15% (an increase of 50%)
In the middle we went from 25% average to 30% average (an increase of 20%)

Seems to me , everyone BUT warriors, got more resistant. Increasing mage resistance by 50 % doesn't seem to be the best way of helping warriors catch up to mages.

One comment about soloing and those who feel it shouldn't be part of game. As a US player, typing "/who" in region on any given night at 10 pm EST or 7 pm PCT will likely result in 2-4 names.....one will be a GM, two are AFK and 1 is digging. Now who is it exactly that we are suppossed to team with ?

During FBT, one of the things I worked on during the "balancing" phase was keep spreadsheets of data on XP gained per kill in the melee / mage skill trees, how long it took to make a kill, and of course whether I could solo the mob. At the end of the US FBT, it was pretty well balanced. I was quite surprised after finally getting in game, (Nevrax's database problems kept me from getting my FBT accounted converetd to a retail accoint for > 5 months) to see the game so unbalanced again.

When I had last played an effective team MUST have included healers, mages and melee peeps or it went down against challenging mobs. That is no longer the case. Going to the land of another race was pretty nigh on impossible in the mid 100 range unless you had this balance. Now blasting single mobs from a distance and killing them before anyone takes a hit allows a healer / mage pair to get thru no problem....A higher level mage can go alone.

As a mage, I can also solo if no one else is on and get good xp per kill and then just sit down every 2nd or 3rd kill or so. When I do melee, that's no longer a possibility.....I have been killed on occassion by things that give me 225 or less xp.

The mage fight is a quick thing over in 2-3 casts, the melee fight drags on and on resulting in me gaining a level at 2-4 times the rate when I mage as when I melee.

[1ender]

I started a thread about this in the general section before I knew that the people who make the game only reall look at these threads. i'd like to mirror my thread and feelings here.

First off I'd like to say I love this game. The unique non-cookie cutter world, animals, and environments. The total lack of dwarves, elves, and orcs. The incredibly potent action creation system. The awesome community and the excellent customer service. It's funny when you put all of those together the level grinding doesn't seem so much like level grinding as it does actually hunting/exploring.

This is definitely a game meant to be played in groups. It's very difficult solo, or in small groups. Teamwork is a necessity. It's obvious in everything from the skill system to the way items are created and distributed. And even then, while I'm in a great guild and I come on at various times during the day, I feel like I'm alone. Even while in a good group of people, long treks are hard and parties are wiped out. I feel the current level of difficulty is excellent though. It promotes strategy and I feel eventually, with hard work I could get anywhere.

Last night I was hunting with some friends and heard about the upcoming heal nerf. I immediately sent a ticket to a guide so that I could get the information straight from the horses mouth. The guide confirmed everything my friends were saying and my heart immediately sank. By nerfing the heal spells the game will become incredibly difficult for new players to get anywhere. You're effectively doubling the amount of healers needed to accomplish the same tasks we do now when I don't feel the player population is large enough to support such a change. New players are going to become isolated, frustrated, and aggitated. There aren't going to be enough healers to go around and free trials won't be extended because people won't feel like they are ever going to get anywhere.

On paper the nerf makes perfect sense. Force more grouping, stop players from viewing HP as a more efficient credit for spell casting, increase reliance on armor and jewels to make those systems more integral to the game. These things are all welcome changes to an extent but, as I said above, I don't think the player population is large enough to support such a huge nerf. My solution? strike a better balance. Decrease healing spells by less a percentage so that more players aren't forced into the healing if they don't want to do that. Try out various percentages on the test server to strike a balance instead of effectively pushing that balance toward melee/heavy armor combos.

As it stands now, this game is difficult enough for me to get anywhere new. With this nerf it will be close to impossible. It saddens me to say it but I think with this nerf established players will leave and new players will quit before they start. For a game with such a small community (albeit an excellent one) this could be a death sentence. I hope to God I'm wrong. I don't want to see this game sink into the woodchip deserts of Atys. I want it to succeed. As such I'm leaving before I start. I suppose I'm adding to the problem and my own fears but I refuse to watch this ship sink. If I am wrong (I hope I am), I will return and embrace the changes.

So for now, fare well and be careful out there. Atys just got way more dangerous.

and finally...

First off let me say I realize these changes aren't bad - in theory. I think if the game's population was larger this would strike a very good balance.

Secondly, I see all these people in the forums saying that these changes are welcome, however no one I've talked to in game, so far, thinks this. In fact all I've talked to have been opposed to the idea. Maybe it's just us, the isolated few, those who play at off-peak-hour times who are against it because there just aren't enough of us to make playing at these times fun anymore after the changes. Is it worth it to isolate this group of people? Only the official server population numbers can tell us that.

Thirdly, I think a curve should be considered like the above poster stated. Maybe a curve of decreasing effectiveness in the INCREASE of the healing spells (I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't I shall try my best to clarify) as one levels so that at higher levels these changes would be balanced but at lower levels people could still be effective enough in groups.

Finally, there were many people who KNEW NOTHING of this upcoming nerf. Maybe an OFFICIAL POLL should be considered and announced on ryzom.com's news section so that all who go to the site see it much like the poll on the racial animations. Maybe they already did such a poll. I looked in the feedback section and didn't see one.

Maybe I will stick around for a month or so. I don't know, I'm seriously debating it right now in my head and will give it a few more days of thought. I'd also like to note that none of the things I've said in my post have been influenced by anyone else's objections. The conclusions I came to were my own before I saw them echoed by other's posts. Maybe this lends a little bit more validity, I dont' know.

For those who are interested the full thread can be found here.

[katriell]

You can always make Melee + Healer only teams or find mobs which are more susceptible to Melee damage as opposed to Elem

Yep.




<junk to lengthen message>

[oauitam]

Looking at the reason and the solution .... the logic which determined the solution is seriously flawed. In the statement below, the reason given for the armor change is to make warriors more resistant as compared to the other classes. It actually does the opposite

"We would slightly increase the absorption limits on armors, to help allow warriors to be a bit more resistant, and to give more impact to crafting.

· For light armors, the absorption range would change from 5%-15% to 5%-25%.
· For medium armors, the absorption range would change from 20%-30% to 20%-40%.
· For heavy armors, the absorption range would change from 45%-55% to 40%-60%."

Again, the goal is stated to make warriors "more resistant".

So warriors average absorption went from 50% to 50% - no change.
Maged resistance went from an average of 10% to 15% (an increase of 50%)
In the middle we went from 25% average to 30% average (an increase of 20%)

Seems to me , everyone BUT warriors, got more resistant. Increasing mage resistance by 50 % doesn't seem to be the best way of helping warriors catch up to mages.

A note in passing. The thing to concentrate on really is just the maximum value. That's the value that all equipment will gradually migrate to. The only question is how quickly things become optimised (because MMORPG players are expert optimisers).

Crafter: And what stats do you want on the armour?
Customer: Ooh, average absorption please!