Do we really need PvP?

[rushin]

Putting on the 'non PvP' flag should prevent any player from attacking you, anywhere. In return, you can't attack any player anywhere either. Changing your mind should have a cost and take a while. This flag should also allow you to heal anyone anywhere, with possible exception of conflict zones during the events if cheating is a concern.

unfortunately that would mean that all the supernodes would be dug by non-PvP flagged people, would give a massive unfair advantage. i think you would need to leave umbra/nexus as PvP.

[sehracii]

Also, unfortunately, all healers would leave their PVP flags off but participate in fights anyway, invincible.

If I understand the system correctly...

[mrshad]

A nice long thread again, and I have made my small contribution to it as well. Reading through it all, I just had an idea.

Those 'PvP flags' that are supposed to make Ryzom way of PvP different from all others have potential in fact. Not the way they are described now of course. The system is too confusing and it doesn't seem to offer full freedom/protection, so here is what I think should be done:

Putting on the 'non PvP' flag should prevent any player from attacking you, anywhere. In return, you can't attack any player anywhere either. Changing your mind should have a cost and take a while. This flag should also allow you to heal anyone anywhere, with possible exception of conflict zones during the events if cheating is a concern.

With such PvP I could live, I think. And maybe most of others could as well.

That would almost work. The game would certainly be better if you could opt out of PvP entirely. The problem would come up when determining if you can heal those who have an active PvP flag. I am sure you can see the potential for abuse if that were allowed, or the problems it could cause if it were not allowed.

[grimjim]

Also, unfortunately, all healers would leave their PVP flags off but participate in fights anyway, invincible.

If I understand the system correctly...

What about a 'Civilian' mode instead.

While in civilian mode you can only harvest, craft and manoeuvre (and activate auras to protect yourself) You can't attack anything, people can't attack you but mobs can.

PvPers could still train mobs onto you but that requires more effort and still gives you a chance to get away, use auras or for them to end up killed too.

So, you'd have three modes, in effect.

One - Civilian - Cannot fight.
Two - Standard - PvP in PvP zones and events, can defend oneself and fight.
Three - Aggressor - Full PvP in any zone, any time.

[manya]

unfortunately that would mean that all the supernodes would be dug by non-PvP flagged people, would give a massive unfair advantage...

Now they are all digged by people who are willing to kill everyone else who comes near I suppose. Where is the fairness in that? But from what I hear, I came to Ryzom only in Jan 05, the PvP areas in PR and Nexus have only been added later. Before, those zones were just very full with aggro mobs. Has *that* change added to the fairness in the regard of who gets those mats?

But I say it again, the harvesting of supernodes is not the issue of this thread. The issue is, how the people who don't want PvP will live in Ryzom after the next patch.

...unfortunately, all healers would leave their PVP flags off ...

That wouldn't be all too bad actually, as long as they heal everyone.

But yes, every system has the potential to be abused. The more we try to 'fix' the problems of PvP, the more arise. We are talking here about shemes, abusing the system and all, but all those issues wouldn't even exist without PvP. So the best solution would still be to have no, or at least no more, PvP in Ryzom.

But that is not possible. So the question is what we will do when it arrives. All I know is the *I* will not fight in any battle against players and that *I* want to be able to heal anyone anywhere. Regardless of alignment, race, or anything else.

[kwhopper]

Fair comment I suppose but my remark wasn't because I don't like the topic.

I don't like PvP and for that I have my reasons. I wanted to close the thread because no one here is gonna convice anyone, not even J even though he has the best arguements. And that's what bugs me most about this whole PvP thing: as soon as you allow it, it no longer matters whether you are right or wrong all that matters is who has the bigger gun...

As I said before, if you want to see what PvP in an MMO leads to check previous threads about PvP (if they haven't been deleted yet due to excessive flaming) and remember that we probably have the best comunity of any MMO currently out there but even here we have a few rotten apples waiting to contaminate the rest of the basket...

Still not a good reason to close the thread. Arguments, no matter if they will result in one side or another agreeing, can be made. If you don't want to see them...don't read the thread.

And no Jyudas doesn't have the best arguments. He represents an extremely close minded and stereotypical point of view in regard to PvP. Saying PvP = ganking is flat out incorrect and ridiculous.

People don't play evil, they play 'teh 3vi1!!!!ONE!!!LOLOMGWTFBBQ!'

is garbage. It, along with many other of his 'points' are overly exaggerated statements used to sway people to his thinking on the matter.

I don't need to check past threads about what PvP does in games. I know first hand, and I love it. I like group vs. group fightsfor territory/resource control. Capture the flag type battles. All out deathmatch...it's fun. I like encountering someone my level and duking it out for hunting rights in the area. No where in there did I say, I like going around finding people lower level than me and killing them and calling them n00bs...because that's not PvP. I will say it again...PvP does not equal ganking and is not destined to become a gank fest.

Fact of the matter is, PvP will be a part of the game. If you don't want to take part, don't. If you feel you must quit the game because players can do what mobs have been doing for a year (kill you), see you later.

[troll16]

What about a 'Civilian' mode instead.

While in civilian mode you can only harvest, craft and manoeuvre (and activate auras to protect yourself) You can't attack anything, people can't attack you but mobs can.

PvPers could still train mobs onto you but that requires more effort and still gives you a chance to get away, use auras or for them to end up killed too.

So, you'd have three modes, in effect.

One - Civilian - Cannot fight.
Two - Standard - PvP in PvP zones and events, can defend oneself and fight.
Three - Aggressor - Full PvP in any zone, any time.

Interesting idea, 3 games modes on 1 server instead of the use of different servers as with other games.

[grimjim]

And no Jyudas doesn't have the best arguments. He represents an extremely close minded and stereotypical point of view in regard to PvP. Saying PvP = ganking is flat out incorrect and ridiculous. is garbage. It, along with many other of his 'points' are overly exaggerated statements used to sway people to his thinking on the matter.

Well, it ISN'T incorrect, sadly its a pretty accurate assessment of what PvP does. Sure, it CAN be used maturely and sensitively for RP but this is the rarer case, particularly as it attracts an unsavoury element.

Anyway, that's by the by, the core point is that PvP is exclusionary and allows the exertion of the choice of one player (PvP lover) over another (PvP hater) as well as excluding them from game content.

It is a divisive and destructive game aspect and will always cause problems, it already has with the current limited application.

because that's not PvP. I will say it again...PvP does not equal ganking and is not destined to become a gank fest.

But it IS part of PvP and that IS what it is destined to turn into. I'd love to be proved wrong but given what has already happened, even here, I don't see it happening.

Fact of the matter is, PvP will be a part of the game. If you don't want to take part, don't. If you feel you must quit the game because players can do what mobs have been doing for a year (kill you), see you later.

Being killed by a player is not the same thing as being killed by a mob, at all.

[grimjim]

Oh, and for sake of clarification...

teh 3vi1 is comment on how a lot of people play 'evil' characters.

There is no thought, no depth, no story to it. It is just an excuse to kill people.

"I am playing a psycho" is not acceptable and is weak, weak, weak.

True villains are inspiring and have depth.

[troll16]

Still not a good reason to close the thread. Arguments, no matter if they will result in one side or another agreeing, can be made. If you don't want to see them...don't read the thread.

And no Jyudas doesn't have the best arguments. He represents an extremely close minded and stereotypical point of view in regard to PvP. Saying PvP = ganking is flat out incorrect and ridiculous. is garbage. It, along with many other of his 'points' are overly exaggerated statements used to sway people to his thinking on the matter.

I don't need to check past threads about what PvP does in games. I know first hand, and I love it. I like group vs. group fightsfor territory/resource control. Capture the flag type battles. All out deathmatch...it's fun. I like encountering someone my level and duking it out for hunting rights in the area. No where in there did I say, I like going around finding people lower level than me and killing them and calling them n00bs...because that's not PvP. I will say it again...PvP does not equal ganking and is not destined to become a gank fest.

Fact of the matter is, PvP will be a part of the game. If you don't want to take part, don't. If you feel you must quit the game because players can do what mobs have been doing for a year (kill you), see you later.

I also love/like PvP games and know first hand, but that's not why I play this game. If I want to play PvP I use another account on a full PvP server which as far as I'm concerned is the only proper way to play PvP (full on).