Do we really need PvP?

[grimjim]

PvP lalala PvP lalala

I find myself completely and utterly convinced by your devastating and compelling argument.

;P

[ozzy111]

PvP is for weak!

Hmmmmm. . . what's this little tidbit from Audrey's post?

[uhuhu]

I am against killing in Prime Root! I am against PvP! I am against Gankers! I am just an innocent digger!

[ozzy111]

YES for PvP!

Now Audrey . . . that's not what you said here.

[uhuhu]

[smolfine]

i dont like pvp myself, just take the summer change for example, i was at 1 of the supreme zun amber spots.
i m not going 2 mention names but they made diggers loose alot of the zun.
Why?
just start 2 nuke someone on the spot in pr for fun?
think: we might get amps easier
I have spoken 2 some that was digging the zun amber. i have been told that over 50 amber was lost bcuz 3 peeps started nuking
Plz dun b so free, sure its ok if u have a pvp where ur 6 vs 6 or so
but, dont just run around free and nuke eachother

______________________
Pappasmurf
Master of Pain, cleaver
Proud member of The Nexus

[smolfine]

Buz of this little incident in the summer i have still no amps
well i do
but they are not good and have only 14 hpleft=((

[prancey]

I have played about all of the popular games and some not so popular. EVERY game with open PVP turns into a gank fest. I know the pro PVPers will say I am wrong but it happens.

Short answer ..

The first time I get ganked will be the last time I play.

[madnak]

Mistake? How can you say it is a mistake?
Whether you want it or not, Nevrax has bee railroading you for one year through defined events. Players are more and more excited about what will happen and are asking the next plot.
In terms of Game Design, if you have the chance to once study Game Design, you'll see the error of many MMORPG is to let the players do whatever they want to. I won't explain you by writing a whole book on this topic, but to sum it up, the players ask for freedom and freedom looses them. Linearity in a game is the best way to please the players even if they yell they want freedom. It's not from me, you can ask Gamedesigners. And in MMORPG, if you let players do their own adventures, a lot of them will be very annoyed. You have to give them a story, an adventure by yourself.

I actually have studied game design. The "illusion of freedom" concept is hardly the only school of thought out there. In fact, emergence is so popular among developers it has become a buzzword. From studios like Irrational who are working hard to widen the track players are on, to studios such as Bethesda who are working equally hard to remove the track entirely. That's not to mention previous successes (need I say Fallout?) The simple fact is that games do NOT have to be on rails.

There are a number of theorists on interactive narrative with a number of theories about how games can become "free" in every sense of the word.

Moreover, MMORPG design is a subset of MUD design or interactive environment design. And if you've ever read the MUD-Dev list, you know that the only thing world designers agree on is that none of them agree on anything.

If you want an on-rails game with high production values, stick with Blizzard. It's always the small development studios who aren't afraid to experiment that make real progress.

No. That's totally wrong. PvP is not necessarily open, full and free. Stop reducing PvP to ganking and cheating.
Let's take an example so you stop the paranoia:
Ultima Online. It started with full PvP. At the beginning it was rather good, but because of PKs, more and more RPers began to leave. A mirror of the world has been created with consentant PvP (Wars between guilds). RPers took it as a chance. RP in Ultima Online without PvP? that's only gossiping at the tavern (quickly boring) and monster bashing (same on the long run... UO is 8 years old). RP PvP as it is called in Ultima Online has rules that everybody agrees in order everybody has fun. I've never been ganked, never seen anyone cheating. I've seen great battles and exciting skirmishes. PvP at the service of RP. That's possible, that works. If you don't believe me there, we can stop the discussion.

If the only meaningful role play action you can find is killing other characters, then it seems to me that you need to think harder. Check out some MUSHes or MOOs sometime. Mortal combat isn't the only compelling conflict that exists in the world - and any kind of conflict can make an interesting scene. What would happen if you tried to play a character with reasonable sensibilities (such as not attacking everyone who disagrees with you). Try it, you might find it less boring than you had imagined. Believe me, a 100% cooperative game can be a lot of fun - at least for some people.

Can PvP work? Yes. I have seen it work. In RP-mandatory settings. But that is not unrestricted PvP. I don't think Jyudas is arguing for no PvP at all, I think he simply wants consent-based PvP. And that is a fair requirement, if you ask me.

People did leave UO in droves due to PvP. In fact, a number of longstanding players of Ryzom left because of the focus on the Kami vs. Karavan conflict. I would prefer to have that whole war erased from the lore, if it would bring back those players.

But when a player wants to be THE hero, that mess people enjoyment. Otherwise there would be no problem to gank and to cheat
Seriously, if the game gives Joe Schmoe a feeling of recognition (through missions, event, whatever), the player won't search for glory by the sword. That's how the game rewards players that makes players want to be a hero or not. Well that's another topic.

Every player can be the hero of his own story. That doesn't necessary mean fame, glory, power, and all the women in the realm. A protagonist doesn't need to be all-powerful in order to be a compelling hero - in fact, I would say a hero's weaknesses define him more than his strengths.

At a given point, you have to code the actions of characters. Slitting throats was not kept in Ryzom's Game Design. By the way, killing someone that is afk is griefing
In a real RPG you can kill others, you are not swinging in the wind in front of someone that insulted you.
Oh, by the way... in T4C, PvP servers were the best for RP, and non-PvP servers were soiled by griefing. Aw, that breaks some rules...

Characters can create their own actions. I don't need an emote that has me hopping around on one foot. I have the imagination to type *hops around on one foot*. There is no way to anticipate and program every possible player action.

You should take some conflict management courses. You will learn that you can deal with insults and arguments without killing the opponent. When a character kills another character for an insult, that pretty much kills the scene, too. There's no room for either character to develop at that point. All it does to help the role play setting is make it clear that your own character is psychopathic.

[uhuhu]

lol pappasumurf, you loose amps and you loose 3 friends too btw in last summer. and for ya know, themac and me open fire on saranda when supreme is gone... when they dig exce zun amber! so it's not our fault if ya don't have amps