Outposts Outlined

[petej]

Are these guards (the hired/bought ones) also the ones which patrol outside the camp at normal times ?

If so it would be possible for a guild who wished to attack to decimate them by pulling agro prior to declaring war and hence deplete the outposts stock of bought NPC defenders

[thebax]

I also believe it would be more fair to all concerned if it were set up so that war could not begin less than 24 hours after declaration, but within, maybe an addition 24 hour window after that time. Perhaps have both guilds secretly bid the time they want the battle to commence after the initial 24 hour period, then average between the two, an additional level of strategy.

I would also like to second the idea for the difficulty degrading one level per week, instead of every two days.

It does sound a bit one-sided though, the attackers have nothing to lose, wheras the defenders, even if victorious, lose any upgraded guards they have to use. Shadowbane was mentioned earlier. To prevent "guild griefing", a very real possibility under the proposed system, they had bane-circles. They required you to buy a bane-circle before you attacked another guilds town, for a substantial price. It was much cheaper than building the town yourself, but, usually at least, meant that the aggressor was actually interested in conquest, rather than just being a vandal/griefer/royal pain in the ***.
Along the same lines, perhaps we could have it so that a declaration of war must be presented by the aggressors to an official, who will ratify it, and notarize that it has been recognized as official, for a tax. This tax will by much less than the outlay for the outpost, upgraded guards, and whatever else we are allowed to improve it with, but will be enough to prevent a group of jerks from forming a guild and declaring war on Saturday, attacking on Sunday, and disbanding their guild on Monday to go gank folks in PR. It would have to be based on a percentage of overall costs for Outposts (which we do not yet know) but around ten million dappers sounds like a good starting place, maybe more. If the defenders stand to lose 100 million dappers in guard troops, and still be victorious, it should cost the aggressors around 50 million to declare war, etc.

[pr0ger]

The level thingy lemme remember of the "coliseeum" concept in T4C.

Yeah, this provided "draft" is lacking too much info.
- how exactly PC will help their NPC squad ?
- how death is handled (moreover with an infinite battlefield) ?
=> when attackers win over 1 level, since defenders PC are supposed to help their NPC, it means they're all killed by attackers.....??! who'll rez them for next battle level ???

- where does came from the attackers' NPC squad ?
=> defenders squad belongs to selected outpost... attackers squad belongs to guild hall "supply corps"... so having 3 outposts means 3 times more dappers spent into defence squad ... erm i'm confused... maybe there is a "bought squad pool" where players pick in to set up defence/attack ?.... I need a draft about upkeep/management of squads!


outpost battle sample :
threshold is 7, team A (attackers) vs team D (owner/defenders)
A : 5 ==> A lost.
A : 7 ==> battle win, so D : 5 ==> A win outpost
A : 7 ==> battle win, so D : 7 ==> tie, D keep outpost.
A : 9 ==> battle win, so D : 8 ==> A win outpost, thresh set to 9


=>

To keep the outpost, the defenders don’t need to do better than attackers; they just have to reach the same level.

Heh !! anti gank system, isnt it ? an enormous attackers squad wont be any use against a weak outpost... weak outpost owner could win following pattern below :
threshold is 4, attackers have prepared attack squad up to level 20
A : 6 ==> battle win, so D : 6 ==> tie, D keep outpost.
... ...
So the strategy here is to make sure attackers loose at the lowest possible level so counterattack turn would be easy.
.....
flaw : a big PC team could easily reach a very high level, then at counterattack turn, defenders will loose at level 1 ... the big PC team could set tons of "high threshold" outpost this way pretty quickly.... something is missing in the draft about that.



to avoid abuse, please confirm :
- levels reachable by attackers is infinite
threshold is 3 :
A : 12 ==> battle win,... new thresh set to 12
- players, with dappers, upgrade the level by making squad, who'll spawn in a definite pattern, harder to kill.
- players can't change squad spawn pattern (since it definite the "level")
- squads will be like the cutthroats : easy to hit but with many HP!
- defenders could play "dumb" and making weak squad to spawn, so attackers will think "let's go above min threshold", but just after min threshold defenders use serious squad (and team tactics) to win over attackers.


note @ thebax : dude, 50mil dappers sounds like nothing for you!!!! it tooks me 9 month to get 50mil dappers. I fear to be put aside of outposts just because i didnt have as much time to play as others. bothersome to be unable to enjoy outpost only because RL doesnt allow many playtime.

[boinged]

A note on costs: a master harvester can make 1m-2m per hour (400mats x 5k mat). Let's say they only do 10 hours of this per week (for no xp) = 10m-20m. Your average guild is going to have 5+ of these people, then with very little work that's 50m per week. On the other end of the scale, think about a harvesters guild , 20+ masters, 20+ hrs/week working towards a common goal...

[random44]

hmmmmmm

Most of us have waited quite a while for outposts right? I think all of you agree that this should impact Ryzom with some outstanding gameplay.

Well, from this description so far, it's looking rather half rate. There needs to be more dimensions. These could consist of some things mentioned, such as tactical/defense improvements to the outpost before or during a battle. It would also be great to see different ways of capturing an outpost than just combat. I know that's been mentioned many times before. I won't go into detail, because theres tons of detailed posts on that topic on these forums.
Even the ability to outfit your guards with gear would add interest. Having your guards holding excellent weapons, and even having them have a uniform, corresponding to the colors of your guild symbol.

I'm really enthusiastic about outposts, and I want them to come no matter how they turn out, but the more the merrier.

[wepps]

Discuss it!

sweeeeeeet

[keoni]

If I read this correctly, then what will make it interesting is that you'll have to fight not only the NPC squads, but the PC forces of the opposing guild and their declared allies. Presumably, the PCs will be able to fully interact with their NPC squads, to include healing them (& if not, why not?).

I agree with others, there should be a significant "mobilzation cost" of some sort that aggressors have to pay, perhaps scaled to the level of the outpost they're trying to capture. To make that more interesting - if the attackers win, let them get a percentage (maybe half) of the mobilization cost back. But if they fail in their assault attempt, all or part of those funds should go to the victorious defender as spoils of war. This should help keep the battles from turning into griefing on a grander scale.

[oauitam]

1. Declaring War (24 hours)
If a guild wants to take an outpost...

Why would a guild want to take an outpost?

8. Conflict area The conflict area is unlimited, the two guilds are in PvP mode everywhere during both attack and defence periods.

I'm not very good at thinking up exploits and so on but can anyone imagine why point 8 is there? Is there some reason to fight away from the battle apart from grudges/griefing/annoying the opposition? It may be realistic but it doesn't seem to be much fun.

If guilds are going to be forced into opening themselves up to PvP (assuming there is some reason to want to hold an outpost) then at least allow any people that don't want to be involved to be safe while they're playing the game however they prefer elsewhere in Atys.

[oauitam]

The bit I don't get is where the attacking squads come from.

As I read it, there are no attacking squads, only defending squads.

In the 'attack phase' the attackers assault the outpost which is populated by the defenders' squads (and maybe defending players too).
In the 'defence phase' ("counter-attack") the outpost's current owners assault the outpost which is now populated by the other guild's squads (and maybe players too).

The notes are uncler as to where these squads appear. It's most likely that in the 'attack phase' the defenders' squads appear inside the outpost itself. In the "counter-attack" maybe the other side's squads appear inside it too and "the role's are reversed" completely.
[It's guesswork but it is one possible reading of what the note implies - just as this answer is to only one possible reading of your question ]

[alexrowe]

Well this seems good hopefully the release of outpost aren't going to turn out like the Encyclopedia release.