Do we really need PvP?
Re: Do we really need PvP?
Duels in Ryzom are bad! a 250 ele vs a 250 ele is only lucky and gear.... I prefer "GvG" like 10 vs 10 or so.. with strategy.. that's PvP for me.. So, Nevrax must change lot of things in this game.
Jennyfer, Illumination
Jena, nous arrivons...
Re: Do we really need PvP?
I think Outposts with the possibility for GvG will be an OK outlet for those players with PvP-needs. I can just see some guilds claiming 'All Your Outposts Are Belong To Us.' with the resulting mayhem. However too little is yet known about the Outposts and their influence and needs for most of us to make any safe statements
As for all Atys, the storyline as I see it is currently gearing towards some major conflict, Kami vs. Karawan, Karawan vs. Hominkind, thereabouts. The story itself will create some inter-homin/inter-player tensions that will need to be resolved in some sort of competition, either through roleplay, combat or some other form accepted by both sides.
As for all Atys, the storyline as I see it is currently gearing towards some major conflict, Kami vs. Karawan, Karawan vs. Hominkind, thereabouts. The story itself will create some inter-homin/inter-player tensions that will need to be resolved in some sort of competition, either through roleplay, combat or some other form accepted by both sides.
Thosam - Hunter of small defenseless animals, Forager near safe areas and Crafter of useless junk.
I hereby declare myself to be a Hominist. Ask me about my philosophy.
I survived Patch 1.
I'm not so sure about Episode 2. 
I hereby declare myself to be a Hominist. Ask me about my philosophy.
I survived Patch 1.
I'm not so sure about Episode 2. 
Re: Do we really need PvP?
In short...
No.
In medium...
No freakin' way.
In long...
You can't honestly be serious? Haven't we already seen the effects of PvP on Ryzom? It is Degressive.
No.
In medium...
No freakin' way.
In long...
You can't honestly be serious? Haven't we already seen the effects of PvP on Ryzom? It is Degressive.
Thom / Tommy
Master Frahar
Master Frahar
Re: Do we really need PvP?
I started this thread because I have my doubts that it will work properly here.
I spent months playing in PvP situations and some of what I found was:
1) Multiply people attack 1 person - ok, no skill involved.
2) High level person kills low level person - also no skill involved.
3) Similar level person attacks similar level person - now there is skill involved.
4) Mixed group attacks mixed group - good PvP.
All 4 have to be considered good PvP
The trouble I see here is that the characters develop too slowly for effective PvP. It takes months probably a year or more to develop a high level character and that's if you play frequently and not just on occassions.
You could have situations where high level character goes around killing low level characters which can happen in any PvP game, but in Ryzom as the character does develop so slowly you can do little about it, other than ask for help. Could make areas no go areas for low to mid-level players.
WoW makes it impossible to talk to the other side of the conflict and this is a very good and important feature. The reason is it makes impossible to know people on the other side unless you have a friend in RL playing on the other who gives you information in RL. What this means generally is that people are not singled out and effectively bullied by others of the community which could happen here with the way this game is set up. If a player does find themselves in this situation they have 2 choices here they can either try and get it sorted out or leave the game because to start another character and the time need would generally not be worth while in this sort of situation. Also as we know if a characters name changes it also changes in a friends or ex-friends, friends list. As some people have suggested they would like to carry there arguments into the game in PvP then the above becomes a real possibility.
Now I do like PvP games but not all the time, But never found PvP/PvE games that good which are games you can choose to do PvP or be flagged as PvE only.
So PvP and PvE games I find fine, PvP/PvE games I find not realistic. WoW's PvE servers are really PvE/PvP.
I don't think people will flock to this game if PvP is introduced because there are games out there specifically designed for PvP, not just having PvP bolted on.
What I'm not sure about With Ryzom: Is it going to be PvE/PvP or PvP eventually?
I spent months playing in PvP situations and some of what I found was:
1) Multiply people attack 1 person - ok, no skill involved.
2) High level person kills low level person - also no skill involved.
3) Similar level person attacks similar level person - now there is skill involved.
4) Mixed group attacks mixed group - good PvP.
All 4 have to be considered good PvP
The trouble I see here is that the characters develop too slowly for effective PvP. It takes months probably a year or more to develop a high level character and that's if you play frequently and not just on occassions.
You could have situations where high level character goes around killing low level characters which can happen in any PvP game, but in Ryzom as the character does develop so slowly you can do little about it, other than ask for help. Could make areas no go areas for low to mid-level players.
WoW makes it impossible to talk to the other side of the conflict and this is a very good and important feature. The reason is it makes impossible to know people on the other side unless you have a friend in RL playing on the other who gives you information in RL. What this means generally is that people are not singled out and effectively bullied by others of the community which could happen here with the way this game is set up. If a player does find themselves in this situation they have 2 choices here they can either try and get it sorted out or leave the game because to start another character and the time need would generally not be worth while in this sort of situation. Also as we know if a characters name changes it also changes in a friends or ex-friends, friends list. As some people have suggested they would like to carry there arguments into the game in PvP then the above becomes a real possibility.
Now I do like PvP games but not all the time, But never found PvP/PvE games that good which are games you can choose to do PvP or be flagged as PvE only.
So PvP and PvE games I find fine, PvP/PvE games I find not realistic. WoW's PvE servers are really PvE/PvP.
I don't think people will flock to this game if PvP is introduced because there are games out there specifically designed for PvP, not just having PvP bolted on.
What I'm not sure about With Ryzom: Is it going to be PvE/PvP or PvP eventually?
Re: Do we really need PvP?
To do well in PvP, you either need to have higher skills, better equipment or tactics... or ALL of the above. This does not mean these players have not been there, done that ! There are many like me that enjoy PvP quite a bit and do well at it and have never ganked another player.
Using the examples of the known goobers that gank folks often really chaffs me, especially by guys/gals that know better. There are many in ALL games that take some of the fun away from others, and they are not PvPing... they may be RPing, crying for rez every 5 minutes or dragging aggro your way while you dig.
If "DT" or anyone else is acting stupid and/or taking the fun away from the game for you it is wrong... This has nothing to do with PvP. Killing someone in a PvP zone, though I do not do it personally, is no worse than many other things IG...
But I am 100% for PvP... and I will kill anyone that disagrees wit meh
BTW, I am more annoyed with folks that carry on conversations in region chat than any wanna-be gankers...
___________________
DoubleTap - Disciple of Jena - Master Melee Dueler
Matis Dual Blader & Medium Gladiator Champion (Undefeated)
Click here to join Melinoe or read the Ultimate Harvesting Guide
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters http://ryzom.twazz.net/
WWJD - What Would Jena Do ?
Using the examples of the known goobers that gank folks often really chaffs me, especially by guys/gals that know better. There are many in ALL games that take some of the fun away from others, and they are not PvPing... they may be RPing, crying for rez every 5 minutes or dragging aggro your way while you dig.
If "DT" or anyone else is acting stupid and/or taking the fun away from the game for you it is wrong... This has nothing to do with PvP. Killing someone in a PvP zone, though I do not do it personally, is no worse than many other things IG...
But I am 100% for PvP... and I will kill anyone that disagrees wit meh
BTW, I am more annoyed with folks that carry on conversations in region chat than any wanna-be gankers...
___________________
DoubleTap - Disciple of Jena - Master Melee Dueler
Matis Dual Blader & Medium Gladiator Champion (Undefeated)
Click here to join Melinoe or read the Ultimate Harvesting Guide
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters http://ryzom.twazz.net/
WWJD - What Would Jena Do ?
Re: Do we really need PvP?
I was unaware of any guidlines or rules prohibiting conversation in region chatvguerin wrote:BTW, I am more annoyed with folks that carry on conversations in region chat than any wanna-be gankers...
Re: Do we really need PvP?
you didn't get the memo?ozzy111 wrote:I was unaware of any guidlines or rules prohibiting conversation in region chat
It specifically saic, "NO conversing in region chat! This behavior envokes violent ganking and griefing on the parties involved."
Thom <--------- anti pvp'er
Thom / Tommy
Master Frahar
Master Frahar
Re: Do we really need PvP?
I would say that Ryzom does not really need PvP. Reasons are:
To be good PvP game, game needs to be design to be PvP game from start. On PvP there is no real reason to have character development, it's about players own skills against other players. Ryzom has very slow and long character development. It would take months before new player could compete with other players. Also because Ryzom was not PvP game from start, the current community is very mature and PvE like.
Mostly I would say, PvP or PvE is about choosing player base. PvP requires very high balance between characters, what isn't needed on PvE games. PvE games requires a lot of content, so that players has someting to do. Both player bases in same game cause conflicts between these needs.
Some people has made the assumption, that after character has development, there isn't left anyting else than PvP. This only fits players who has need to compete. Creating community on PvE games isn't about compete, but to be together and doing someting. It's about feeling to be part of the living world and finding You own place there. With extreme example, I would say PvE people are more like crafters and PvP people are more like warriors.
To be good PvP game, game needs to be design to be PvP game from start. On PvP there is no real reason to have character development, it's about players own skills against other players. Ryzom has very slow and long character development. It would take months before new player could compete with other players. Also because Ryzom was not PvP game from start, the current community is very mature and PvE like.
Mostly I would say, PvP or PvE is about choosing player base. PvP requires very high balance between characters, what isn't needed on PvE games. PvE games requires a lot of content, so that players has someting to do. Both player bases in same game cause conflicts between these needs.
Some people has made the assumption, that after character has development, there isn't left anyting else than PvP. This only fits players who has need to compete. Creating community on PvE games isn't about compete, but to be together and doing someting. It's about feeling to be part of the living world and finding You own place there. With extreme example, I would say PvE people are more like crafters and PvP people are more like warriors.
Re: Do we really need PvP?
larwood wrote:you didn't get the memo?
It specifically saic, "NO conversing in region chat! This behavior envokes violent ganking and griefing on the parties involved."
Thom <--------- anti pvp'er
Dang memo's are always getting lost in the Fyros mail system. I think the mailman's mount keeps eating them for forage.
Ryzorski <-------- thinks Jyudas has right idea.
Jyudas wrote:In the end it boils down to one thing. Including PvP that is non-consensual in any form allows one group/type of players to deprive others, forcefully, of the type of play they prefer (non PvP). Consensual PvP allows pro PvP to kill each other to their heart's content without impinging on anyone else's style of play. And yes, PvP areas, even flagged etc, are non-consensual - you're cutting people off from more than just PvP. The only consensual PvP _area_ in the game at the moment is Matis arena. The other areas do not count because they hold resources and aspects of play outside PvP.
Re: Do we really need PvP?
Is the introduction of PvP part of the original game plan?
I find it hard to believe it is, as the game does not seem to really allow for it.
Patch 1 what was the driving force behind it?
With a game that is already running, why was such a major change in the balance of the game undertaken. Balance is extremely hard to get right in a complex RP game, there are just too many variables. If changes were to be made in balance they should have been done gradually and monitored not do them all at once.
Personally I would like to have seen new content (oh dear there's that word again) being added in the form of new materials, new items to craft, new mobs and new armors styles and weapons etc.
I have to wonder are the players influencing Nevrax's decisions too much. It is impossible to please everyone so don't even try.
What I will say to Nevrax is you designed the original game and game plan, in essence it your game we just play it. Sure you should listen to your player base but that does not mean you have to act on it if it does not fit into the original game plan. Sure you can modify the game plan if it is necessary but with caution.
If this game is being influenced too much by the players then I would say: Nevrax your in the driving seat. So Drive!
I find it hard to believe it is, as the game does not seem to really allow for it.
Patch 1 what was the driving force behind it?
With a game that is already running, why was such a major change in the balance of the game undertaken. Balance is extremely hard to get right in a complex RP game, there are just too many variables. If changes were to be made in balance they should have been done gradually and monitored not do them all at once.
Personally I would like to have seen new content (oh dear there's that word again) being added in the form of new materials, new items to craft, new mobs and new armors styles and weapons etc.
I have to wonder are the players influencing Nevrax's decisions too much. It is impossible to please everyone so don't even try.
What I will say to Nevrax is you designed the original game and game plan, in essence it your game we just play it. Sure you should listen to your player base but that does not mean you have to act on it if it does not fit into the original game plan. Sure you can modify the game plan if it is necessary but with caution.
If this game is being influenced too much by the players then I would say: Nevrax your in the driving seat. So Drive!