I hate the Karavan

[sidusar]

NOTE: all of the above is old game lore that is no longer ingame/on the website.

2495
Hoï-Cho begins dictating his encounters with Ma-Duk. Mabreka, at the age of 10, is the faithful scribe.

2504
Old sage, Fung-Tun becomes leader of the Zorais in spite of growing popularity of the young Mabreka Cheng-Ho who challenges fervently rejects Kami supremacy as the instrument of Jena . Fung-Tun reinstates Jena as Kami Superior and banishes Mabreka who finds refuge in Pyr.

It's not just old lore from an OOC standpoint, but from an IC standpoint too. In the old lands, before the Kitin swarming, Kami's were believed to be servants of Jena. Not until 2495 did Ma-Duk first appear.

[philu]

http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_higher_ ... er_karavan

The myth
The homins lived on an impoverished planet until the Great Dragon, the prince of darkness, came and seduced them with visions of crystal waters and a land of plenty. After leading them to Atys, the Dragon endeavored to extinguish the sunlight there and in the cold and dark reduce the homins to slavery. But Jena, Goddess of the sun, creator of Atys, got wind ... The Goddess then conjured the light anew so provoking the Green Rising so that the homins could live again in harmony in a bountiful world.

Note also

http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_higher_karavan

.. Jena, the Goddess of Atys and Mother of Hominity. We have been sent to watch over Her children to give them guidance should they lose their way, and prepare them for divine elevation on the judgment day. ...


Never forget, like me, you were made in Jena's image, and faith in Her must prevail in your heart for you to receive divine grace when Atys can no longer support homin life. In return for your devout offerings, She has invested us with divine authority to resurrect your spirit, to teleport you to distant lands, and to teach you how to wield our technology.

Nowhere in that does it mention another planet before the one the homins were seduced from by the Dragon. You've just backed up my point that it doesn't mention a planet where the she-invader gave life to homins before the impoverished planet.

[kookoo]

Nowhere in that does it mention another planet before the one the homins were seduced from by the Dragon. You've just backed up my point that it doesn't mention a planet where the she-invader gave life to homins before the impoverished planet.

No, but http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_story_first_appearance mentions that she created Atys - and that's a "homin" legend, not an OOC story point. Would or should that I spend enough time to dig around in all the lore that had been provided, methinks you'd be surprised to find that it gets very twisted down at the heart of it all.

- the new kookoo (aka Kaena)

[philu]

No, but http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_story_first_appearance mentions that she created Atys - and that's a "homin" legend, not an OOC story point. Would or should that I spend enough time to dig around in all the lore that had been provided, methinks you'd be surprised to find that it gets very twisted down at the heart of it all.

- the new kookoo (aka Kaena)

True but then it also says in the Kami details :

We are an integral part of the great design of Ma-Duk, the Life Giver that created Atys

Two legends, perhaps neither are true? It's all just myth and legend.

To this day, nobody has managed to shed light on the mystery surrounding the arrival of homins on the planet of Atys.

The simple fact is nobody knows - yet. Each 'side' has their own beliefs about where they came from and who created Atys.

Members of the Karavan claim to be the messengers of the goddess Jena

But who knows? Maybe they lie. They certainly have shown themselves to be liars (I refer you again to the spy incident - they lied about who the 'spies' were). Perhaps the Kami lie too. Only time (ooc: and the storyline) will tell.

Only thing we know for sure is that the Karavan intend to invade Atys and attack all who support the Kami. If they come to my homeland bringing war I will fight them to the death.

[riveit]

Nowhere in that does it mention another planet before the one the homins were seduced from by the Dragon. You've just backed up my point that it doesn't mention a planet where the she-invader gave life to homins before the impoverished planet.

It is a matter of deduction. Jena is the Mother Goddess who gave life to homins. Generally creator gods and goddess don't set their creations down in impoverished worlds to begin with but rather in lands of plenty {OOC please show me RL counter examples}. She also "conjured the light anew so provoking the Green Rising so that the homins could live again in harmony in a bountiful world" - implying that there was a bountiful world before the impoverished world. Lastly, Riveit's belief is that Jena lies closer to the ancestral root of homins which came from a long lost paradisical planet. Trykers, Matis, Fyros and even those blue Zorai are distant cousins and all descended from the homins of this paradise. In any case, Riveit's lore may well be more heretical and extensive than your homin's. Your beliefs may differ. Is your in-game name Philu?

[kookoo]

{OOC please show me RL counter examples}.

While I agree with your point for the most part, I will point you to the first books of the Bible where Moses and his people were set to wanter in the desert for 40 years.

- the new kookoo

[riveit]

While I agree with your point for the most part, I will point you to the first books of the Bible where Moses and his people were set to wanter in the desert for 40 years.

Genesis came first. You'll have to search farther afield!

I could be wrong but, offhand, I can't think of any creation myths where the creator made a hellish or even impoverished world to begin with ... except for Cathar/Bogomil/Paulician views that all the material world was evil, but I think that the pure good spiritual world may still have come first.

[kookoo]

Genesis came first. You'll have to search farther afield!

I could be wrong but, offhand, I can't think of any creation myths where the creator made a hellish or even impoverished world to begin with ... except for Cathar/Bogomil/Paulician views that all the material world was evil, but I think that the pure good spiritual world may still have come first.

Well uh.. I just couldn't remember where the story was really, and I think it was in Exodus after they left Egypt anyway...

and I'll get back to you on the 'impoverish to begin with' idea, but you're probably right.

- the new kookoo

[philu]

It is a matter of deduction.

Ah so you DID make it up!

Jena is the Mother Goddess who gave life to homins.

Not in my beliefs.

She also "conjured the light anew so provoking the Green Rising so that the homins could live again in harmony in a bountiful world" - implying that there was a bountiful world before the impoverished world.

Depends how you read that, you could read it as "live again in harmony" (i.e. they lived in HARMONY before) on a bountiful planet this time (instead of an impoverished one). However, it doesn't really matter which way you read it, it's a myth, a fairy story. Your false god is an alien invader.

{OOC please show me RL counter examples}

How can I? Gods are fantasy figures. There are no RL gods.

Is your in-game name Philu?

Nope.

While I agree with your point for the most part, I will point you to the first books of the Bible where Moses and his people were set to wanter in the desert for 40 years.

He said RL examples!

[riveit]

However, it doesn't really matter which way you read it, it's a myth, a fairy story. Your false god is an alien invader.

Karavan followers should believe in an original bountiful world by sheer logic of their other beliefs:
1) Jena is good
2) Jena is the Mother Goddess, creator of homins

Jena put her creations on some world. This world must be a great place because she is a good goddess and wouldn't drop her creations on an impoverished world in an offhand negligent manner. Something must have messed up the place and made them leave, probably sinful homins or evil Kami interference. Of course, she could be testing her homins, but the cradle comes before the school.