Community opinion on botting

[vaquero1]

Just change the "In-Game" Macro system around. Make it so you cannot set up macros to target entity's. In this way you force botters to use the mouse to pick the sources. This would make it much harder to use the bot with the game.

Yes I am a admited/recovering bot user. I used it back in the day b4 the merge. I was caught and punished. I openly told all this on the NA forums.

The one I used was a simple keystroke/mouse movement recorder. I used it for some levels and then got caught at the ToT Kami buy some fine upstanding citizens of Atys. Yes I was dumb about it. I did not know really what I was doing. I mean botting at the Kami ToT that was stupid of me but the worst part about it was how I felt after I did it. People that once respected me no longer wanted to speak to me.

I dont know if this would work but one way you could take care of this is to create script for the GM's that looked for repetitive key stokes in players. Once a player was identifed by the script as using repetitive keystrokes. The GM could simply send him a tell that said you have X amount of time to respond to this. No responce would be cause for alarm and further action could be takin.

[madnak]

Punish the botters, fine. Punish the rest of us because of them? Please don't.

Any of the counter-measures proposed in this thread would be a cinch for a programmer of moderate skill to circumvent. I, for one, absolutely hate it when the game interface is limited, convoluted, and unresponsive in order to "get" the exploiters who find a workaround regardless.

In fact, much as I hate cheaters, if I had to choose between a good interface and no cheaters, I'd choose a good interface. Making good game decisions that happen to help prevent exploits is fine, but making bad game decisions in order to crack down on a minority of players is going to frustrate many of us.

It also strikes me as lazy - instead of making tools to track down and deal with the exploiters (who will be around in any game, regardless of countermeasures), the devs are throwing in poorly thought-out "quick fixes" that punish the authentic players more than the cheaters!

[alyssah]

Punish the botters, fine. Punish the rest of us because of them? Please don't.

the devs are throwing in poorly thought-out "quick fixes" that punish the authentic players more than the cheaters!

Could you specify please. It seems that you are saying forget about the botters, work on improvement. When we lose long standing & respected players in this game, it becomes important that the problem is dealt with.

People who argue against this action actually set themselves up as possible infringers. I'm quite happy to accept this is not the case but by knocking any & every counter measure proposed in this thread you come across as a PR for botters.

Since you obviously have sufficient expertise to know that these measures will be unsuccessful, could you not put it to use devising successful tactics. The tactics the law enforcers use against crime is largely unsuccessful but would you really want them to stop?

[thebax]

Didn't we used to be able to "take all" before the source timer ran out? I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I think we did. That would have saved me alot of exe mats, heh (due to death by agro, automatic loss of all dug mats not in bag). It also makes more sense than having to wait until the end of the timer before you can put what mats you've already dug up, into your pack. I do not know for sure, but that may be the sort of thing madnak may be talking about.

OOC:

[madnak]

Law enforcement isn't crime prevention. If I want to go out and shoot someone, I can do that. Nobody is going to stop me. Crime prevention measures, such as gun control, are controversial and well outside the scope of this debate, but the fact is that even if pointy sticks were made illegal, I could still commit a violent crime. I have that ability.

The police are there to apprehend me after I commit a crime. Again I don't want to get too far into RL politics, but if police were allowed to throw me in jail because they thought I might commit a crime, or if everyone were under martial law "just in case," I wouldn't like that much. Crime prevention programs are another issue, and in many cases I do think there are better uses for our tax dollars. But I'll get off RL stuff now.

Finding and eliminating bots is the goal here. Deterrence is also a good idea. But the idea of preventing bots by limiting the game mechanics is silly. The lack of space-bar targeting doesn't hurt the botters, it only hurts the honest players. Imagine if all these suggestions were implemented - harvesting might become fun and engaging, just because you have to defeat the interface in order to successfully forage!

I like having macros. I like getting my experience after I dig, without having to pass a test. I like it when the devs are working on adding new (censored) to the game, rather than implementing little obstacles for exploiters. I like being able to craft by hitting the craft button over and over again (I'd welcome an engaging craft system, or one where I don't have to burn 1000 mats just to gain one level, but making things harder on crafters just to make exploiters add an extra click to their macro is a bad idea).

I don't for one second believe that Neun (or anyone else) is leaving because of bots. Neun has been talking about leaving for some time, and I doubt he's ever even seen a bot. Moreover, I think the major issue here (the straw that broke the camel's back) is the slap-on-the-wrist given to confirmed botters. That is unacceptable to me as well. And it only supports my point - why go to all the effort of making fixes to prevent bots if you aren't even going to punish the bots when you find them?

Finally, bots are becoming a problem but they are by no means a huge issue right now. I think the first priority of the devs should be some kind of new (censored). We have gone months without (censored), and the players we're losing because of that are a much bigger issue than botters. If the devs spend their (limited) time trying to prevent botting, that means we will continue to have nothing to do in the game. Maybe they can add a "hunt the bot" minigame and call that (censored), but honestly.

[keoni]

Just change the "In-Game" Macro system around. Make it so you cannot set up macros to target entity's. In this way you force botters to use the mouse to pick the sources. This would make it much harder to use the bot with the game.

This would suck hind teat. It would make harvesting among herds of herbivores or groves of Jubla frustrating in the extreme. It would prevent a whole slew of legitimate macros, to include efficient out-of-team heals. As others have said, punish the botters by punishing *them*, and severely if they keep it up - but not by punishing everyone.

[vguerin]

Didn't we used to be able to "take all" before the source timer ran out? I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I think we did.

AFAIK man, as long as I have been playing SoR that option has not been there... but my memory taint what it used to be...
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[thebax]

AFAIK man, as long as I have been playing SoR that option has not been there... but my memory taint what it used to be...

Ah. I may be mis-remembering too. I thought I had done it once or twice back in october-november, but I'm not at all sure. If I did, I think it worked like hitting drop all during the dig, you got the mats, but you didn't get your focus back. Although that period was full of alot of input from a new enviornment, so I may well be remembering hitting the "drop all" button instead, heh.

OOC:

[ozric]

Didn't we used to be able to "take all" before the source timer ran out?

Yes, but it was a long time ago (beta)

[Xavier Antoviaque]

BEWARE OF THIS FACT : you all were discussing during weekend and on monday (closed day), no nevrax guys are around ! Don't expect any answer yet.
Lawrence is a CSR. GM also. They are Jolt guys, and cannot override nevrax' internal policy.
I'm hopping for a direct answer from Xavier, Vince or Jessica... on tuesday !

We usually also read the board during the week-end - closed days do not really apply to MMOs. Here I waited since the original question was targetted at the community (Community opinion on botting), and since an honest and accurate answer required to check facts and gather opinions internally. Anyway here is the meat.

What's the point of a CoC? Basically to keep the majority of people in line, and hopefully to ward of the evil-doers. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for everyone. In the real world, Blizzard could afford to ban who the hell they like - they have 2 million subscribers, and perceptible problems/concerns with finances. I don't think I need to finish this paragraph to make the point...

I would say it's even more important to address botting with a small community than with a large one. Such an issue can have devastating effects even with a small number of people using it. And even without considering this issue, we don't like botters.

We'll do whatever we can to kick their butts. Plain and simple.

Nonetheless, I don't think cheating and exploiting of any kind should simply be ignored. What should happen really is an escalating series of actions, ending in a permanent ban if the warnings are ignored and the botting continues.

Exactly. We want to make sure we ban the right people - "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." So we have escalating procedures, which I have already detailled in the past.

Since the last CoC change, the CSR team is spending more time investigating botting issues, and as soon as there is sufficient proof, the sanctions are (systematically!) applied. These sanctions range from a 24H ban to a permanent ban, depending on the severity of the case and antecedents. Some have already experienced our wrath on this subject.

Another important point: you can help! When you spot someone who is behaving like a bot, contact the GMs. Every report of this kind is investigated, and usually very quickly.

--
Xavier.