[DEV] Rebalancing changes - Proposition

[rushin]

Please explain to me where you get these figures from? I am a lvl 156 elem and I dont do anywhere near 1800 damage. Am I doing something wrong?!

really? i took figures from personal experience. Had to do some dune riders missions and kill awesome kipucka's. Couldn't find anyone to go with at the time so solo'ed 5 or 6 as lv 15x mage. numbers are slightly generalised but i was hitting for over 1800 before the upgrades at 160(or 165 which ever it is). As a level 168 mage i can do over 2k dmg now. I am a lv170 1h sword user and have a q190 100% dmg sword. do about 530dmg to soft targets (ie no armor) and about 300 to kinch/kipucka's etc.

And a lvl 150 mage cant wear q180 LA anymore. http://www.ryzom.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Made this post before the lv+25 restriction was announced, so a lv150 can wear q175 (well 170 in a real world situation) la and jewels, proabably not too much difference.

Yeah right, you try standing there trying to cast while a Tyrancha is wacking the hell out of you! Happened last night in team when I was using elem. Our tank took several hits while we nuked it. On several occasions it ignored his taunts and almost wiped me with the same hits. Only reason I didnt die is because there was a healer there!

well if you are going to solo magic you would stand 46-50m away from target surely? and/or use fears.

small edit: figures based on 97/97 ele amp

[philu]

really? i took figures from personal experience. Had to do some dune riders missions and kill awesome kipucka's. Couldn't find anyone to go with at the time so solo'ed 5 or 6 as lv 15x mage. numbers are slightly generalised but i was hitting for over 1800 before the upgrades at 160(or 165 which ever it is). As a level 168 mage i can do over 2k dmg now. I am a lv170 1h sword user and have a q190 100% dmg sword. do about 530dmg to soft targets (ie no armor) and about 300 to kinch/kipucka's etc.

Made this post before the lv+25 restriction was announced, so a lv150 can wear q175 (well 170 in a real world situation) la and jewels, proabably not too much difference.

well if you are going to solo magic you would stand 46-50m away from target surely? and/or use fears.

small edit: figures based on 97/97 ele amp

Do you know I've realised what it is, I assume your using a double race spell (fire?)? I've just realised I never updated my double spell to fire 2 when I got it. D'oh!

* feels dumb and crawls back under the rock*


Second part still stands though. Mages are weaker HP wise. They can't take the hits like a melee can. Yes you have to use tactics to avoid dying but so do fighters. Try telling me wearing HA isn't a tactic.

A pure mage at the same lvl as a fighter will have less HP and take fewer hits to die. It's the nature of the disciplines. Fighters are supposed to take the hits while mages do the damage. Using their combined skills to hunt as a team.

I don't hold with the "they kill them before I get a hit in" argument either. You're in the wrong team if that's the case. Your teammates should tailor their attacks to allow you a chance to hit. Even if it means holding off the killing spell until you do.

Part of the problem here is actually the flexibility of Ryzom. It's because you can lvl melee AND magic that problems arise. Mages can get higher HP by doing melee too and make themselves stronger.

[rushin]

Do you know I've realised what it is, I assume your using a double race spell (fire?)? I've just realised I never updated my double spell to fire 2 when I got it. D'oh!

* feels dumb and crawls back under the rock*

*smiles*

Part of the problem here is actually the flexibility of Ryzom. It's because you can lvl melee AND magic that problems arise. Mages can get higher HP by doing melee too and make themselves stronger.

Agreed, it is a problem. When i am maging rather than melee'ing (sure neither of those are words) i actually have more hp as my la is higher level than ha. Having a classless system is great from a lot viewspoints but does cause problems as well.

[holina]

Ok, I am willing to admit when I am wrong, I am sorry that, as you say Flamed, you!! I am not asking for your respect now, Just appologizing.

Forgiven and forgotten already.

I know that proposed changes do look scary when you only look at the heal changes in themselves. If they do not give enough boost to melee's damage absorption then things will look grim, but since we don't know the exact numbers, we can't be sure - I think Nevrax is still playing with the exact absorbtion percentages.


So I say let's wait till they patch ATS and ask the folks who have access - or pray we get access ourselves - and check it out.

If they boost melee enough then melees will get less damage so less heals needed to keep them up.

This patch won't make healers life easier, that's true. But if they do it right it won't make it harder either.


One thing to note however. For mages the amp they use is the most important, since it gives you a huge bonus both in speed and power. So if you don't have good amps it can be very well that you have more trouble healing that other at the same level.

For reference I'm using 97%/97% amps atm, so I do 2000 hp with a single heal when I'm using the healing bricks you get at lvl145, which is enough to heal a lvl200+ melee fighting 3* purple jugulas in GoC without any stress.

[grimjim]

Second part still stands though. Mages are weaker HP wise. They can't take the hits like a melee can. Yes you have to use tactics to avoid dying but so do fighters. Try telling me wearing HA isn't a tactic.

This is a bit of a misconception I think.

At present the monster special attacks utterly kill you no matter whether you're a mage with low hp or a fighter specialist with high hp. They're that powerful.

TBH there really AREN'T any 'tanks' in Ryzom, two mages can take on just about anything, the melee role seems to just be sparing the magi having to cast fear or root and holding the aggro.

[sehracii]

TBH there really AREN'T any 'tanks' in Ryzom, two mages can take on just about anything, the melee role seems to just be sparing the magi having to cast fear or root and holding the aggro.

I'd be happy if two mages even had to do that much!

Elementalist and healer seem to be able to get along without afflictions as easily as without melee.

[aylwyne]

I've not been too happy with combat since the increase in MOB damage and lowering of MOB HP that occured early on in the game. It made fights too fast and chaotic to feel like there's much strategy involved. You often don't have the time to use a variety of skills. It's just a race to see if you can nuke the mob before he nukes you.

Right now, healing often boils down to spamming your heals continuously because any one hit from the mob has a chance of taking a person down. You don't have the luxury of waiting until the person is low on HP and then casting the heal.

I think lowering the elemental damage output as well as the healing power makes sense ONLY if the armor absorption levels are increased significantly or MOB attacks are toned down some. I personally favor making medium and heavy armor absorb a lot more damage than they currently do. This will give meleers more of a clear role of being the frontline keeping the mobs away from the lightly armored. It would encourage mixing up skills in a team more than now.

I think the combination of better armor absorption and smaller nukes will make fights last longer and, hopefully, bring back a little of the strategic feel that I thought was there early on.

[sidusar]

Just a random idea, but what if they simply did the following:
- Decrease the attack damage of every attack of every mob by a factor two.
- Increase the attack speed of every mob by the same factor two.

The mobs would still have the exact same damage over time output they have now, but two things would be different:
- Heavy armor would be more effective. If right now a kirosta hits you for 1000 damage and your armor can absorb 400 max, you take 600 damage. Under the new system the same kirosta would hit you for 500 damage twice, of which your armor would absorb 250 both times, so that you take 250 damage twice = 500 damage instead of 600.
- Light armored mages getting hit would still take the same damage over time they do now, but would have twice as much chance to have their casting interrupted. This would make the elemental/healer duo harder and give greater benefit to having a melee in the team to tank, or an afflictionist to root/slow/stun/fear the mob.

Seems to me this way there'd be no class at all getting nerfed, no mob being made more powerfull than it is, and we'd still end up with a more balanced PvE system. Or is there something I'm overlooking here?

[mrshad]

Just a random idea, but what if they simply did the following:
- Decrease the attack damage of every attack of every mob by a factor two.
- Increase the attack speed of every mob by the same factor two.

That makes a lot of sense.
A radically simple idea that could really change the game for the better....
That is just logical enough to be ignored

[seawe]

heh many mobs already attack at caffinated speeds... I don't know if my eyes could keep up with doubling the rate!

more hp and less damage maybe... (shrug)