A touch of reality...

[grimjim]

If you're into RP, you're into playing characters, accepting characters, and generally accepting behaviours and cultural differences that you wouldn't have to in everyday life. For example, a 20-stone bearded guy called Bob coming and sitting next to you in the pub, wearing women's clothing. And then talking about his favourite perfume.

OK, I _can_ understand your point of view, but put it into some context.

When you read a sci-fi/fantasy/horror/crime/whatever book, written by a man, do you get 'the wiggins' at any female character they've written about? Let alone a sex scene?

Does the woman playing Robin Hood in panto confuse and upset you?

*Following not addressed to you specifically*
Is this why so many RPers in so many other MMO's get called 'ghey'? In their cases maybe it has to do with adolescent insecurity, poor loves

I don't play female characters, most of the time, because I don't think I can do a convincing job of it. Women run under a completely different OS I can do a more convincing job playing a purple, jovian gasbag because here aren't preconceptions. That just gives me more respect for people who can play the opposite gender well.

[alyssah]

All this roleplay reminds me of an old Scottish joke Darren.

A very, very senior female member of the Royal family was coming to inspect one of the oldest Scottish regiments. As she was passing along the line, her attention was caught by the rather handsome figure of the sergeant major.

She stopped for a moment and then, sort of conspiriatorily asked him what was worn under his kilt. Weell Ma'am, he says, nothing much, its all in good working order.

Blushing furiously she said, no no my man, that isn't what I meant. I was referring to your uhm, oh, you know. Och aye Ma'am, my aplogies. However you are our C in C and know I'm not allowed to answer that question. Still, as C in C you are allowed to check ALL of our equipment.

Her Highness pondered for a moment then plucking up the courage quickly inspected the contents of the kilt. Giving a startled gasp, she rapidly withdrew her hand saying, my good man that's gruesome.

Aye Ma'am, the soldier replied and if you stick your hand up again you'll find it's grue some more.

Apols for going off topic.

[alyssah]

I play the opposite gender because I prefer to watch a female derriere sashaying before my eyes than a hairy assed male. No offence to non hirsute posteriors.

[dazman76]

Yay, result

When you read a sci-fi/fantasy/horror/crime/whatever book, written by a man, do you get 'the wiggins' at any female character they've written about? Let alone a sex scene?

No. Although some authors do a very good job of describing their characters, I've never found any character in a novel to turn me on, if you like Other emotions yes - sadness, happiness, relief etc. However, if we were to talk about films, that's a completely different thing. Take Angelina Jolie/Halle Berry (sorry couldn't decide on just one) - they could play (almost) any character imaginable, in a film, and yes - there's a chance they may 'float my boat'. But that isn't connected to the character in any way, that is purely the actress - because the actress is a living, breathing human being, and in the cases above pretty damn attractive (IMO anyway )

Does the woman playing Robin Hood in panto confuse and upset you?

Not at all, and I'm surprised you used that example Firstly I'll say I don't do pantos (I don't think they're 'ghey', they're just not my thing). Admittedly people go to pantos to interact, however - in reality, the audience are interacting with the show and the script, not the actors.

But the point here, is that I'm not directly interacting with woman playing robin hood - so why would I be scared? Secondly, panto is an area where pretty much everybody dresses up as the opposite sex - if you went to panto not expecting to see cross-dressing, you'd be disappointed I think

Is this why so many RPers in so many other MMO's get called 'ghey'? In their cases maybe it has to do with adolescent insecurity, poor loves

Oh Jyudas, this disappoints me mate You made a really good reply, but you had to get frisky on one comment eh?

I know it wasn't directed at me, but it leads me nicely into... OK, I definitely suffered from adolescent insecurity, as do many youngsters nowadays. As I mentioned I grew up with beer-swilling loud idiots, and before they could swill beer they were basically 'thoughtless bullying idiots'. When I was at school, I received comments and nicknames about virtually every part of my body that could be criticised, the fact that I was reasonably clever (until the 3rd year that is...), the fact that I didn't shorten all my words and have 59 cousins, etc. Try growing up with that and feeling confident about yourself I'm guessing (because I don't know), but I think your upbringing was very different to mine. You're a big smoke guy, or at the least you grew up in the south, close to London? As I said I'm guessing, but if that's the case, our upbringings were worlds apart my friend. Unless something went very wrong you would have been as mature at 16 as I was 18, or worse. In derbyshire everyone is childish - even people my age (29) are still completely clueless, and act just like they did 10 years ago. (EDIT: This is the reason I get quite stressed when people are being immature on the forums)

What I'm saying is NO - those people aren't calling you ghey because they had hangups in their teens, they're calling you ghey because they have limited minds, and anything unknown or unusual is truly ghey to them. Don't knock people who suffered adolescent insecurity, because some of us really do try to get on you know?

I don't play female characters, most of the time, because I don't think I can do a convincing job of it. Women run under a completely different OS I can do a more convincing job playing a purple, jovian gasbag because here aren't preconceptions. That just gives me more respect for people who can play the opposite gender well.

Maybe that tells us something about the Jyudas we didn't know? Maybe he's not such a good actor after all? Only kidding mate, tho I'm sure Kostika could offer some advice, at a good price of course. My mate Bob says the beard isn't a problem anyway, so that's a start...

Appreciate the chat J

[grimjim]

Dazman, going into more detail here wouldn't be appropriate, but feel free to get in touch via the PM box (and then e-mail). I don't think we were as worlds apart as you might think.

I do worry about the sheer volume of homophobia I run into online though. At the risk of sounding trite 'A lot of my best friends are gay' (Well, not a lot, but enough) and I wonder where the hell it all comes from whether extracting the michael from people for playing female characters or anything else. You have the use of 'gay' as a perjorative. I guess part of it is down to the 'Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory' meaning it shows more online but who are these people?

Everyone's here to have fun, right? There's room for everyone to have fun their own way (if everyone does it responsibly) without tearing into each other, right?

[thebax]

I don't know if I'd like to post a picture of myself from real-life, regardless of my appearence (which may be charitabley described as satyrine, although saturnine has also been used once or twice ). The reason being, as members of a social species we are, however unappealing it may be, often required to wear a mask, to "go along to get along". I enjoy the distance playing a character gives me, being freed from the preconceptions and expectations of my real life race/gender/physical appearance. I would prefer to keep my two lives as seperate as my personality will allow.

On the subject of "cyber-trannies", I know of many who are male in real-life, and play a female well in various games. I seem unable to make that leap, primarily because of lack in acting ability. I have only the vaguest idea how a female will respond to a given situation, one of the things that make them so interesting, and why I stick around after biological imperatives have been satisfied. In alternate worlds, I tend to play small, scruffy males. It is a role that I find suits me well

OOC, (and in disguise) :

[thebax]

Dazman, going into more detail here wouldn't be appropriate, but feel free to get in touch via the PM box (and then e-mail). I don't think we were as worlds apart as you might think.

I do worry about the sheer volume of homophobia I run into online though. At the risk of sounding trite 'A lot of my best friends are gay' (Well, not a lot, but enough) and I wonder where the hell it all comes from whether extracting the michael from people for playing female characters or anything else. You have the use of 'gay' as a perjorative. I guess part of it is down to the 'Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory' meaning it shows more online but who are these people?

Everyone's here to have fun, right? There's room for everyone to have fun their own way (if everyone does it responsibly) without tearing into each other, right?

In a perfect world, all the other guys would be gay, with me the only straight one, and all the women Bi. Less competition, and what competition there was, would be more fun to watch

Semi-OOC:

[dazman76]

Dazman, going into more detail here wouldn't be appropriate, but feel free to get in touch via the PM box (and then e-mail). I don't think we were as worlds apart as you might think.

I'll do that mate I quite enjoy talking about this kind of thing, and have a complete lack of friends with whom to do it (beer and football is OK though). I have a view on the whole "that's gay" thing - I used to work with a couple of guys who fitted the offending profile. I'll PM you and get your email, and then bore you with my ramblings

thebax: With your first paragraph there, you managed to say exactly what I was thinking myself Very well put that man

I have to apologise for taking this thread off topic too... (it's the not the first time I've done it either ) Sorry Catfud!

[sidusar]

Oh, this discussion again. Quite an interesting subject to me, having gone from being thoroughly freaked out by female characters played by men, to playing a female character myself now. (Not that you'll ever hear me pretend I'm good at it, I'm sure I'm an insult to women everywhere. But hey, I'm doing my best, really. And having a lot of fun too.)

Yes, finding out your pint-sized sexy Tryker friend is in fact a 20-stone guy called Bob with a beard would be quite unsettling. But to name some other examples, I'm sure finding out your pint-sized sexy Tryker friend is in fact a 10 year old girl, or a woman old enough to be your grandmother, would be quite unsettling too. What is it that makes the gender difference so particularly weird?

Genuine question there, not meant rhetorical or anything. So far all the complaints I've seen in previous discussions about this subject came from men who had an issue with female characters played by guys. Is it less weird to have a male character played by a girl, or is it just not mentioned because it's so much more rare? And how about the female players out there, do they find crossgender playing weird too or is it just a male problem?

It's not really Bob wearing women's clothing and talking about his favourite perfume, it's his character. Thinking it's Bob doing those things is much like thinking a movie actor who plays the villain is evil himself. If you can't seperate the character from the person playing it, that's partly your fault too (how large a part depends on how good the person plays ).

I do see where you're coming from. I used to find that sort of thing really weird too, but it's just something you have to get used to, I guess. Maybe you should try playing a female char yourself once I did and have a lot less trouble with others doing it now. A much easier time seperating character from player too, though it's never completely smooth.

That being said, I generally prefer not to see the faces of the people behind the characters, whether they crossgender play or not, because it makes it harder for me to seperate the character from the player. Exceptions made for people I know out of game ofcourse. But if I don't know you in the real world and have no intent of getting to you know you there either, I have no desire to know how you look like there either. And likewise I prefer if you don't see how I look like there. Baxter explained this pretty well; I play Ryzom to get away from the real world for a while and thus would rather keep them seperate. While I'm ingame I usually don't like talking about anything from the real world either.

Lastly I don't think this is offtopic. The thread was about bringing something of your real life into the game, and that has everything to do with the line between character and player. But if the thread starter does think it's offtopic, my apologies.

[micrix]

I used to work with a couple of guys who fitted the offending profile.

wrong post, bad english, ignore me please